This can't be normal. I want to be a good reefer. HELP

[Bubblebass]

Here's my story:

Got a 29g biocube from a friend 2 years ago. The cube was well established (8 years old) and things did pretty well in it. Fast forward 6 months and I got a 120g with a 40 breeder sump. I was still pretty new and had a local guy set it all up for me. Cycled and tested. Waited as I should and did all kinds of research on the "best" lights, pumps, heaters, chillers, skimmers.........As time went on I replaced the budget stuff I got with the tank with what I read was some of the best. I now have an overrated skimmer, 900gph main pump, 2xMp40's and 2x XR30 G3 pro's. I have been anal about tank maintenance and testing, never letting my numbers get out of whack at all and never going over 2 weeks without a water change. I have been through some GHA, so I got a reactor with GFO and carbon. My nitrates were high for the first 6 months, but have been resolved with the use of NOPOX.

Here are my current levels: Ammonia - 0
Phosphates - undetectable
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 2-5
Alk - 8.6
Mag - 1350
Calcium - 440

My tank started growing zoa's finally after about 8 months. Nothing died, but nothing really grew. I bought some small frags of chalices and acros. Acros browned. Montes browned and died. Chalices lived but did not grow from their original size of a quarter or so (from aqua SD). Got some euphelia from a local reefer. They did great. Acans (colonies and frags) did great as well as mushrooms. They all flourished. When I added the Xr30's the acros came back and looked like they were going to take off.

I have about 10 fish that are doing well. Not too large for the tank and none of them are coral pickers.

I waited for the magical year into the tank and was hoping everything would take off. At about the one year point of the tank, everything started looking rough. My maintenance routine hasn't changed, my salt (aquaforest probiotic), my numbers are all the same. I lost a couple of my fish that I had had since the beginning (purple tang, fairy wrasse). Checked all levels and nothing was out of sorts, so I figured it was just a fluke thing. Then my acros started bleaching. I hadn't changed anything light wise and at this point they were encrusted to the rocks they were on. I turned the lights down 5% to 65% overall intensity on reef radiance program. They ended up dying within 2 weeks. Then my gold hammer. I tried replacing acros and all 3 (2 frangs and a colony) have died. Basic green and blue ones, nothing tough to keep. Got a basic red monte and it died within a week. Now my acan's which have grown about 3x the heads since I've gotten them are starting to die off. There are skeletons where heads were. Flesh is hanging on ready to blow off. Even half my polyps are now closed up. I have noticed some asterina stars that may be ticking off the polyps, but doesn't explain everything else. The mushrooms are still fine.

I stopped buying coral all together at this point. My fish are doing well again. I feed LRS and Reef Roids.
My Mp 40's are set at 40-50% with varying programs throughout the day on each side of the 4' tank. I'm running the Coral Labs AB+ at 60% now for 8 hours a day with a ramp up and down for another 1.5 hours on each end.

The tank no longer uses alk, mag, or calc. I used to add all three every few days, but the numbers never change anymore. They are displayed above. I started adding 60ml every two weeks of strontium because someone told me it may help. No change. I spend at least an hour everyday cleaning, testing, changing filter socks.....whatever it needs.

I've thrown money and time at it and nothing seems to make it thrive.

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading it all. Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Thanks

 

[saltyhog]

The only thing amiss in your parameters is the phosphate. I would stop running GFO until it rises to 0.02-0.05 and try to keep it in that range. I didn't have much growth until a learned that the tank has to have a little PO4 for coral to create new skeleton.

 

[CarrieB]

Something in the water? Have you checked your TDS lately?

 

[Bubblebass]

Something in the water? Have you checked your TDS lately?

Yes has always been 30ish. That's still what it's at. That's why I started the NOPOX and have to dose a couple times a week.

 

[Bubblebass]

I have another thread going about GFO and usage. Seems to be some thought that I've totally stripped my water. I'll shut it off and see if that is the issue. **fingers crossed**

 

[Elementalj]

You skimming? What's that looking like? I gotta be honest, I'm kind of shy with the gfo. It really doesn't play around with taking the funk out of water.

 

[Jason mack]

Here's my story:

Got a 29g biocube from a friend 2 years ago. The cube was well established (8 years old) and things did pretty well in it. Fast forward 6 months and I got a 120g with a 40 breeder sump. I was still pretty new and had a local guy set it all up for me. Cycled and tested. Waited as I should and did all kinds of research on the "best" lights, pumps, heaters, chillers, skimmers.........As time went on I replaced the budget stuff I got with the tank with what I read was some of the best. I now have an overrated skimmer, 900gph main pump, 2xMp40's and 2x XR30 G3 pro's. I have been anal about tank maintenance and testing, never letting my numbers get out of whack at all and never going over 2 weeks without a water change. I have been through some GHA, so I got a reactor with GFO and carbon. My nitrates were high for the first 6 months, but have been resolved with the use of NOPOX.

Here are my current levels: Ammonia - 0
Phosphates - undetectable
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 2-5
Alk - 8.6
Mag - 1350
Calcium - 440

My tank started growing zoa's finally after about 8 months. Nothing died, but nothing really grew. I bought some small frags of chalices and acros. Acros browned. Montes browned and died. Chalices lived but did not grow from their original size of a quarter or so (from aqua SD). Got some euphelia from a local reefer. They did great. Acans (colonies and frags) did great as well as mushrooms. They all flourished. When I added the Xr30's the acros came back and looked like they were going to take off.

I have about 10 fish that are doing well. Not too large for the tank and none of them are coral pickers.

I waited for the magical year into the tank and was hoping everything would take off. At about the one year point of the tank, everything started looking rough. My maintenance routine hasn't changed, my salt (aquaforest probiotic), my numbers are all the same. I lost a couple of my fish that I had had since the beginning (purple tang, fairy wrasse). Checked all levels and nothing was out of sorts, so I figured it was just a fluke thing. Then my acros started bleaching. I hadn't changed anything light wise and at this point they were encrusted to the rocks they were on. I turned the lights down 5% to 65% overall intensity on reef radiance program. They ended up dying within 2 weeks. Then my gold hammer. I tried replacing acros and all 3 (2 frangs and a colony) have died. Basic green and blue ones, nothing tough to keep. Got a basic red monte and it died within a week. Now my acan's which have grown about 3x the heads since I've gotten them are starting to die off. There are skeletons where heads were. Flesh is hanging on ready to blow off. Even half my polyps are now closed up. I have noticed some asterina stars that may be ******* off the polyps, but doesn't explain everything else. The mushrooms are still fine.

I stopped buying coral all together at this point. My fish are doing well again. I feed LRS and Reef Roids.
My Mp 40's are set at 40-50% with varying programs throughout the day on each side of the 4' tank. I'm running the Coral Labs AB+ at 60% now for 8 hours a day with a ramp up and down for another 1.5 hours on each end.

The tank no longer uses alk, mag, or calc. I used to add all three every few days, but the numbers never change anymore. They are displayed above. I started adding 60ml every two weeks of strontium because someone told me it may help. No change. I spend at least an hour everyday cleaning, testing, changing filter socks.....whatever it needs.

I've thrown money and time at it and nothing seems to make it thrive.

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading it all. Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Thanks

Wow , I feel for you .. I hope you find the answer soon .. just don't give up .. there's enough people on here too help you find the answer , following .!! Good luck !

 

[Elementalj]

I really think it's because your phosphates are so low. I've read that they require a tiny amount combined with low levels of nitrate for growth and health. Coming back into the hobby after years of absence has made me do some serious catching up but I'm believing the new data stating that low levels of nutrient suspended in the water column aid in health and growth because the zooxanthellae living in the corals tissue metabolizes these and in turn feeds the corals.

Dang, what a long sentence.

 

[Rick.45cal]

PO4 deficiency is far more devastating to corals than NO3 deficiency. Especially when there is ample NO3 available (imbalanced nutrients). All the symptoms you describe fit PO4 deficiency. Especially the high coral mortality.

Lose the GFO and let the phosphate come up, or dose some brightwell neophos until it becomes detectable on a regular basis. Since you have been dosing NOPOx in addition to using GFO and you have undetectable PO4 for a long period of time, your tank is likely PO4 bound (the bacteria that the NOPOx feeds needs both NO3 and PO4 to really function right). So as soon as some PO4 is available it will be consumed. You might have to dose daily a small dose (test PO4 daily) until your tank has detecable PO4. Then you can try and let it balance itself. Likely you have a surplus of organic carbon (from the nopox) that the bacteria are waiting to consume because they can't eat it without PO4. This excess organic carbon built up because of the phosphate deficit can lead to things such as bleaching etc. (all the symptoms are all intertwined).

Good luck, let us know how this goes. I feel fairly certain that you will see results in several days if you try this.

 

[griff500]

Yes has always been 30ish. That's still what it's at. That's why I started the NOPOX and have to dose a couple times a week.

30ish TDS? You want zero. Are you making your own RO? If so then are you using a DI stage?

 

[Bubblebass]

Thanks for all the responses. The GFO reactor is turned off as of last night.

Yes, I wet skim and it is medium in color with an ASM G2 skimmer.

The water I get from the only LFS around is at 30 tds. I make water for evaporation. Keep in mind my tap is at 450 tds(!). I get it to 30 by way of a 6 filter with RO for my drinking water. I do not have DI because I'd have to run it through my whole house filter. I make about 30 gallons a day for the family and I think the DI would be used up very quickly. Is there a way to have a canister attached to the outlet of my RO that I could turn on or off as needed?

This is why I use the NOPOX. Perhaps this is wrong thinking, but I was subbing that for tds zero water.

I use a salifert PO4 test kit. Is this sensitive enough to keep low levels of PO4 without going too high and getting the GHA again? Keep in mind I'm very anal about tank cleanliness and water changes and always have been.

 

[griff500]

The water I get from the only LFS around is at 30 tds. I make water for evaporation. Keep in mind my tap is at 450 tds(!). I get it to 30 by way of a 6 filter with RO for my drinking water. I do not have DI because I'd have to run it through my whole house filter. I make about 30 gallons a day for the family and I think the DI would be used up very quickly. Is there a way to have a canister attached to the outlet of my RO that I could turn on or off as needed?

You can have another DI pod on the outlet (assuming sufficient pressure I suppose). I have two DI pods on mine. I would definitely sort that out and see what happens. Perhaps just buy another RODI unit just for this?

 

[Rick.45cal]

Thanks for all the responses. The GFO reactor is turned off as of last night.

Yes, I wet skim and it is medium in color with an ASM G2 skimmer.

The water I get from the only LFS around is at 30 tds. I make water for evaporation. Keep in mind my tap is at 450 tds(!). I get it to 30 by way of a 6 filter with RO for my drinking water. I do not have DI because I'd have to run it through my whole house filter. I make about 30 gallons a day for the family and I think the DI would be used up very quickly. Is there a way to have a canister attached to the outlet of my RO that I could turn on or off as needed?

This is why I use the NOPOX. Perhaps this is wrong thinking, but I was subbing that for tds zero water.

I use a salifert PO4 test kit. Is this sensitive enough to keep low levels of PO4 without going too high and getting the GHA again? Keep in mind I'm very anal about tank cleanliness and water changes and always have been.

They make a murlock ball valve that you can put inline of your product water. You can then manually split the line and send the secondary line to your DI cannisters (I would definitely use 2 in your case) and then fill a reservoir container for your tank. You don't want to drink DI water anyway!

That is likely your biggest problem, since it is making you drive your nutrients down. The thing you haven't considered is what all the other stuff is that is making up that 30TDS, probably a grab bag of stuff, maybe heavy metals etc. best to fix this first! I'd also lay of the NOPOx for awhile until your nutrients start to rise then you can adjust the dosage to compensate. I think you have likely built up a huge surplus of carbon in the system, which is compounding all your problems with your make up water.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Like this one at BRS...

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/3-way...PpoL6jI0UkQvbNMeq5Bt_085cY2pal0LzMaAowI8P8HAQ

 

[recess62]

With the tds so high in your water you might want to get a Triton water test. This way you will know what you have in your water

 

[Bubblebass]

Ok, I'll try that. I only use the NOPOX when my nitrates rise to over 5. Maybe 1-2x per week at 5ml each time.

Thanks for the link! I'll get on that.

 

[Elementalj]

Like this one at BRS...

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/3-way...PpoL6jI0UkQvbNMeq5Bt_085cY2pal0LzMaAowI8P8HAQ

Love that place

 

[CarrieB]

Being anal about water changes is counter-productive if your replacement water is polluted. Of course, that's a strong word, but with an initial TDS of 450, there could be anything in there.

 

[Bubblebass]

If I get the RODI to 0, it won't matter though. That's my next goal after I get my PO4 sorted out. If my LFS is the same as mine at home, what other choice would I have? Do no water changes?
Keep in mind my tank was doing alright (not great) at one point with the same water I'm using now. As I move forward I'll definitely be going for the best possible, but the immediate need will be for stuff to stop dying off.

 

[CarrieB]

If I get the RODI to 0, it won't matter though. That's my next goal after I get my PO4 sorted out. If my LFS is the same as mine at home, what other choice would I have? Do no water changes?
Keep in mind my tank was doing alright (not great) at one point with the same water I'm using now. As I move forward I'll definitely be going for the best possible, but the immediate need will be for stuff to stop dying off.

I don't know where you live, but some metro water supplies vary in quality seasonally. It may be that you are getting contaminants now that you weren't getting before.

If it were my tank, getting some clean water would be a higher priority than the PO4. And yes, I wouldn't change any more until I had some. But that's just my take on it.

I'm not sure what you mean by what choice do you have, though. Can't you just start with the 30 TDS water and run it through an RODI system? You should end up with 0 TDS.