Uronema Marinum will ruin your day

Reefahholic

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This is by far the worst thing I've delt with. I'm no newbie either.

Anybody care to discuss this jacked up ciliate parasite and it's fission reproduction.

I have yet to get a good school of blue/green Chromis. They always come in with it. I've tried 37% Formalin and Copper at a therapeutic level and it seems to be nearly resistant to everything.

Anybody care to share their experiences specifically with the blue/green Chromis? I feel that it may just be that these little fish are just weak and can't tolerate treatment well. They go down one by one usually until there is only one left. I think buy this time the formalin takes affect. 24 hours later. I usually do a good dip first, and then put them in the QT with maintenance dose. I'm fixing to try another batch of fish. I've been buying 7-10 at $4.99 each and loosing most of them. I tired other treatments as well. I think I may hyper-oxygenate the water with this next batch. Kinda wondering if the Formalin is depleting the oxygen too much. I've never had it affect any other fish though. Same tank...same doses. I've also noticed the UM seems to be very resistant to even doubled the recommended doses of 37% Formalin. Snorvich seems to discourage anybody from even keeping this species. So I'm assuming he knows just how difficult they are to cure from UM. One thing is for sure, you don't want to get this junk in your DT. I'm buying them where I know it's already in the system so I can experiment with treating it. Ohh and BTW...I've already done a skin scrap and scoped it. It's definitely Uronema.


 

melypr1985

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Well, I haven't tried treating it, but we do get Chromis in at the store 50 at a time. I hate ordering these because the day after they come in they start dropping like flies. Just 1 or 2 at a time, but most seem to have this or a bacterial infection of some sort. So in the end, we sell probably 20 out of the 50, the rest die.
 

melypr1985

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Yeah, I've yet to get my hands on some pure CP.

That's one reason I haven't bothered to treat them for it. I'm not shelling out the dough for CP for the store to use and the manager wont shell out for it either to use on a $5 fish. Maybe someday I'll get around to it on my own time.
 
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Well, I haven't tried treating it, but we do get Chromis in at the store 50 at a time. I hate ordering these because the day after they come in they start dropping like flies. Just 1 or 2 at a time, but most seem to have this or a bacterial infection of some sort. So in the end, we sell probably 20 out of the 50, the rest die.


I'm wondering if these fish are just super sensitive? I had 3 left two days ago after the other 4 died. I was netting them out to do a bath and one died instantly. It was like he went into straight shock. It was crazy, because he was just swimming fine just before I netted him.

It's great to hear from a store owner. Keep me updated as I'll do the same. The seem to be doing ok at my LFS. I'm not sure if it's the copper they're in or if the system volume are keeping the numbers down. Obviously when I put them in a 10/g to treat, their numbers will multiply like flies. Also wondering if they need more stability as I'm just using fresh saltwater and dip acclimate them. Either way, I don't ever leave my QT's up and running. I always break down as I know that most all LFS will have parasites due to the volume of fish coming in. NOT THEIR FAULT. I break my tanks down after treatments to prevent anything possibly missed.
 
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That's one reason I haven't bothered to treat them for it. I'm not shelling out the dough for CP for the store to use and the manager wont shell out for it either to use on a $5 fish. Maybe someday I'll get around to it on my own time.


Well, I'm gonna keep playing with different drug combinations because UM has become personal for me. ICH no problem...TTM...done. Velvet...Copper at therapeutic level...done. Brook....Formalin and FW dips and very hard to eliminate but I can get it. Uronema....The hardest yet. Most bacterial infections I can get with a broad spec antibiotic. Of course Prazipro after or during TTM.
 

melypr1985

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We keep them in a 600 gallon doughnut tank. We've had 80 at one time and I'll say that it doesn't seem to matter how big or small the system. I haven't tried keeping them in the copper system as yet. The doughnut has softies in it for the most part and a lot of wrasses... fish that need sand or are copper sensitive. I think what your seeing at the LFS is just the stronger ones out of the ones they ordered. I'm willing to bet they have a similar loss of life with them that we do. I know I've heard many people say that they order 10 and hope to end up with 3. It's a widespread problem. On the other hand, I have 3 chromis that are about 2 inches in size and old as heck in my display at the store! Those suckers are huge! No idea how they lasted this long... maybe luck?
 
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We keep them in a 600 gallon doughnut tank. We've had 80 at one time and I'll say that it doesn't seem to matter how big or small the system. I haven't tried keeping them in the copper system as yet. The doughnut has softies in it for the most part and a lot of wrasses... fish that need sand or are copper sensitive. I think what your seeing at the LFS is just the stronger ones out of the ones they ordered. I'm willing to bet they have a similar loss of life with them that we do. I know I've heard many people say that they order 10 and hope to end up with 3. It's a widespread problem. On the other hand, I have 3 chromis that are about 2 inches in size and old as heck in my display at the store! Those suckers are huge! No idea how they lasted this long... maybe luck?

Very interesting to hear that. Yes, they do lose a lot. I know the owners, but interestingly when I come in the store almost daily on my way to work...not one is dead on the bottom. I think they are super sensitive and may need to be in a lights out tank in low traffic area in my house where they don't get spooked. I'm determined to have a school of 15 and will not give up. I'll continue to update and test.

Not a good quality video and I was up for 16 hours as I work 12 hour night shifts in the medical field and have a long commute, but will give you an idea of what's going on.

 

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As previously discussed, I've had pretty good success treating Uronema with CP. However, before CP I had success with formalin baths and tank transfers (treated with a lower concentration of formalin). The key is to keep moving the fish to different QTs (like doing tank transfer), as formalin will never eradicate the parasites in the tank - only on the fish. Back in the day, I used a chelated copper/formalin mix to clear chromis of Uronema but I can't remember the dosages from that long ago. :(

In his sticky, Steve discusses using both metro & acriflavine to treat Uronema: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

But I have zero experience using either drug for the purpose of treating Uronema.
 
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As previously discussed, I've had pretty good success treating Uronema with CP. However, before CP I had success with formalin baths and tank transfers (treated with a lower concentration of formalin). The key is to keep moving the fish to different QTs (like doing tank transfer), as formalin will never eradicate the parasites in the tank - only on the fish. Back in the day, I used a chelated copper/formalin mix to clear chromis of Uronema but I can't remember the dosages from that long ago. :(

In his sticky, Steve discusses using both metro & acriflavine to treat Uronema: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

But I have zero experience using either drug for the purpose of treating Uronema.


So formalin won't kill it? What will kill it or stop the cycle.
 

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So formalin won't kill it? What will kill it or stop the cycle.

Nothing. It is a “free living” parasite which does not require a fish host. Once a fish with Uronema has been introduced, the tank must be broken down & sterilized in order to eradicate it. So, the best way to treat Uronema is to treat the fish itself. It's a numbers game. You keep giving the fish repeated formalin baths in order to reduce the number of parasites on it's body, but also keep moving the fish to a different QT (post bath) so it doesn't keep getting reinfected. Treat the QT with a lower concentration of formalin to keep the pressure on the disease. Eventually you will eradicate all the parasites in one of the baths and then transfer the fish to a "clean QT." Mission accomplished!

Of course, all of the above is a lot of work. Especially for a $5 fish. ;) So, I found that a high dose of CP (80mg/gal) cleanses the fish all in one shot and then all you have to do is transfer him to a clean QT. :)
 
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I know it doesn't require a host, but isn't there something that will kill the parasite in the water. I need to move the fish more. I'm gonna try more FW dips too.

I know bleach will kill it. ha ha.
 

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Have you tried metronidazole? I think thats supposed to work for uronema if I remember right. Its been a while for me.
 

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From that article by Steve in regard to brook/uronema:

Prescription Medicines
Flagyl (metronidazole) is by far the most effective drug available against these diseases. Indeed it is the only effective treatment for fish that are internally infected with Uronema marinum, but it has to be administered in the diet. To treat with Flagyl (metronidazole), add 34mg/l (34mg/kg bodyweight is required if treating the internal disease) of the drug to the aquarium water to be treated. A single dose should be effective, but it can be repeated daily, if required, as the drug is well tolerated by most fish. It is a very reef safe drug having little impact on invertebrates BUT it will kill off all protozoans and anaerobic bacteria in the treated tank, so, like all medications that are used in a reef tank, it will have some undesired effects on the ecological stability of the tank.
 

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Well, I haven't tried treating it, but we do get Chromis in at the store 50 at a time. I hate ordering these because the day after they come in they start dropping like flies. Just 1 or 2 at a time, but most seem to have this or a bacterial infection of some sort. So in the end, we sell probably 20 out of the 50, the rest die.
Well that sucks. Always wanted to add chromis....maybe I'll steer clear.
 
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I agree with that HF. I've purposely been buying fish in this tank that I know have UM. The copper, hypo, or overall system volume keeps it masked until you get them in a 10/G. Then they drop like flies one by one.

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

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Have you tried only QT 1 or 2 at a time? Maybe it's actually aggression your fighting having so many in the 10g tank at a time. Just a thought, who knows maybe the uronema is just brought on by some fighting wounds becoming infected, on fish that might otherwise be able to fight it off just fine. Opportunistic.
 

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Have you tried only QT 1 or 2 at a time? Maybe it's actually aggression your fighting having so many in the 10g tank at a time. Just a thought, who knows maybe the uronema is just brought on by some fighting wounds becoming infected, on fish that might otherwise be able to fight it off just fine. Opportunistic.

Good point. Even healthy chromis are known to sometimes whittle themselves down to just one i.e. "the winner". ;)
 
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