Why are there so many sick fish?????

[4FordFamily]

To 4Ford, you are right, but for some of us "old timers" all the dosing, tests, vodka, stuff is alittle overwhelming when all us dummies did was water changes and feed. Paul brings common sense ie:food, etc that is useful. I love this site and all the friendly people who are willing to help! I also enjoy the fact that you encourage all input. I've learned so much! Thank-you to all reef2reefers. Debra

Debra, I don't dose or test anything, except rarely nitrates. I eyeball everything my fish and inhabitants tell me when I have a problem. All I do is water changes.

I don't have time for all the dosing and freaking out over parameters, my fish do great even very fragile fish but I obviously cannot keep difficult coral for those reasons. I did as Paul did for years but with far less success and only part of the equation. I tried the black worms and better diet but faltered somewhere or many places and fish continued to die. My "Ich management" ways worked for many species for ten years.

I will say that many tangs will not be able to handle that type of husbandry. If you think an acanthurus tang (especially Achilles, powder blue, powder brown, or goldrim) will survive with that methodology long term you're in for a rude awakening. If you do find success it'll be short run and you'll have killed dozens of them in the process to find the golden goose.

His fish he keeps are mostly hardy or less affected by parasites. It's still quite a feat, I certainly don't mean to diminish it, rather i wish to point out that your livestock choices if done correctly are limited.

 

[Debramb]

So very true, you seem to be the master of tang "gangs" I would never attempt to house those beautiful darlings'. I'm just glad the ones I have are the tamer kinds. (And healthy so far). I'm trying to understand the " above my pay grade " reefing! It's all overwhelming. Thank-you for giving us a chance to learn! ( and I'm alittle jealous of those tangs of yours)

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

There are retailers that properly QT fish before selling them. The Live Aquaria Diver's Den is perhaps the best example. Blue Zoo Aquatics also offers a competent QT. However, it's not overtly common and often you're buying a fish that hasn't been QT'd. QT is a vital part of the overall aquarium system and I think aquarists should view it as such. It's part of what makes your tank work. Used properly, QT can prevent 99.9% of infections. Yes, some infections do slip through the cracks, but it's not common. Disease is one reason I recommend aquarists show restraint when getting new specimens. That said, we all get bored with out stocking list, especially if we've had it running successfully for an extended period of time. The largest culprit to marine fish illness is the extended shipping times fish go through on the chain of custody as well as the environmental stress and disease they are exposed to, before making their way to our tanks. A large percentage of marine fish die before entering an aquarium and issues like cyanide capture make aquarium fish deaths more apparent. Using caution, QT and learning from experience can all aid aquarists in not losing specimens. It's also vital to understand what species your current inhabitants will accept as stress from tank mates can lead to disease outbreaks that wouldn't otherwise take place.

I respect Paul's method of fish keeping 100% however it's not my own personal suggestion. I believe that QT and disease avoidance is a better deterrent to losing specimens, than is not QT'ing and using natural seawater and mud. There are a host of environmental concerns to those suggestions and there is enough technology and detailed methodology that taking a chance on natural immunity isn't necessary in the current age of aquarium keeping.

 

[Debramb]

You are so right, we really don't stand a chance if they use cyanide, etc for capture! Maybe reefers can do for spec. Collection what Duck Hunters did to preserve the flyways!

 

[Paul B]

Oh Youse guys are just saying that.
(what accent?)

 

[Paul B]

[QUOTE="

I believe that QT and disease avoidance is a better deterrent to losing specimens, than is not QT'ing and using natural seawater and mud. .[/QUOTE]

Oh No! You don't like Mud!!!!

 

[4FordFamily]

So very true, you seem to be the master of tang "gangs" I would never attempt to house those beautiful darlings'. I'm just glad the ones I have are the tamer kinds. (And healthy so far). I'm trying to understand the " above my pay grade " reefing! It's all overwhelming. Thank-you for giving us a chance to learn! ( and I'm alittle jealous of those tangs of yours)

Thanks, I try. It's a unique "skill set" and one that comes with its own inherent risks. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Valkyrie]

As a beginner in saltwater aquariums I'm like a sponge, soaking up all the information I can. I got Paul B's book, read it cover to cover and I loved it! But I'm also one of those people that believe that all of our "pets" need to be fed as close to natural as we possibly can. When I say "possibly can", I'm not referring just to accessibility, it's also about how much time an individual is willing to put into the care and feeding of any creature in their care.

Some people are all about their aquariums and spend a hefty chunk of their time and money on them. I have 4 dogs, 2 cats, 9 parrots, a small fresh water aquarium, a goldfish/koi pond, 2 geese, and a turkey...in addition to my saltwater tank(s)...oh and a husband, a full time job as a licensed vet tech, AND I'm trying to get better at pottery so that maybe someday I can quit my job and make pottery full time.

The ideal, to me, is to have healthy fish with an immune system that rises to the occasion. Exposure does not have to equal infection. I plan on implementing as much as I can to help increase fish immunity. But...I'm a beginner, so I suspect the road will be a rocky one.

Peace!

 

[Debramb]

Wow, what a great "family"

 

[Paul B]

What, No Emu's!!!!..9 Parrots! Wow that's a zoo. You must be a very dedicated person. I got fish and an ant on a leash. Also a wife. She's my favorite but I also have to spend some time on the fish. Sometimes I get mixed up and forget which one to give the blackworms to.
Valkyre, did you read the foreword my Daughter wrote? That's the best part of the book as she is the writer in the family.

I targeted keeping fish healthy through their immune system because, to me, that is the natural way to go and the system the fish evolved to follow.
In the early 1900s when immigrants came to the US from Europe we used to quarantine some of them because we didn't know better (and they wouldn't eat blackworms)
Now we expose people to the very diseases we want them immune from and I am sure most of the people we know had vaccines for those things so we no longer have to quarantine people.
Also to me, it is un natural, difficult and un healthy to keep fish away from pathogens for their entire life which in the case of a clownfish is about 30 years.
If I didn't keep the fish immune, there is no way I could add natural things from the sea like mud and amphipods and I couldn't feed live worms and fresh clams. I never want to have to worry about disease and I never do. I think the system is very easy and basically depends on the proper food, but people tell me it is difficult. Maybe it's me.

 

[meir]

Completely agree with this methodology

 

[Paul B]

That's great Most people seem to wait until a fish gets sick then try to cure it. I want them to be as healthy as they can be so they don't have to concern themselves with disease.

 

[jcdeng]

@Humblefish can you do something like per request basis? when your qt set up is free anyways. That way you don't have to keep fish stock like a lfs would have to and lessens the overhead cost? Just an idea.

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish can you do something like per request basis? when your qt set up is free anyways. That way you don't have to keep fish stock like a lfs would have to and lessens the overhead cost? Just an idea.

I'm not setup for that at the moment, but it may be coming down the road.

 

[Renee180]

Personally I prefer that my fish don't go into the fs DT, as not to have them come into contact with other stuff in their DT (unless obviously I trust the store) so either I have the store keep it in the bag but call me the day the order is supposed to arrive so I'll be there or my personal lfs that I usually go to, he keeps a qt for my orders being that I'm a constant customer, I'm not saying that it works for everyone in just putting it out there what some of the benefits cld be of the fish not being in the fs DT, but coming in and going out

Yes I agree it is safer for the fish to get it while it is still in the bag and not exposed to more disease, the down fall to that is you really don't get the chance to see if the fish is acting normally, looking healthy(could be deceiving anyway) or eating. But it does work to keep them one step away from more exposure. I bought fish that way once, 6 years ago, and I still have the mated pair of lyretail anthias