Would you start treatment? Hemorrhagic septicemia

Squared · Dec 28, 2016

This is a new development within last week. I have had this fish for over 3 years and it has always been healthy. I noticed these red patches on its underside a few days ago, but it does not seem to spreading. The belly area also has a red patch but the flash washed it out.

I feed a lot and use selcon/vitachem with pellets and frozen foods. I don't want to move the fish and cause it stress, but IDK how lethal this diseases is once it starts.

Best course of action? Wait it out? Transfer immediately to QT and treat with furan-2 and kanaplex? Does metro+focus do anything for septicemia?

Humblefish · Dec 28, 2016

There is both a viral and bacterial version of this disease. Neither just pop up on their own without "something wet" recently added to the DT. Any new additions?

Squared · Dec 28, 2016

About 6 weeks ago I added an anthia. I only gave the two weeks in QT with prazi before putting it in. Had to remove the anthia a couple weeks ago to treat an eye infection, currently in QT and looking much better.

Other than that, nothing new.

Humblefish · Dec 28, 2016

You're probably seeing different symptoms of the same harmful bacterium which caused infection to the anthias. I would QT the angel and use the same treatment on him.

Squared · Dec 28, 2016

Could I just treat all the fish (blenny, two clowns, valentini puffer)? Since they are all in the same tank the anthia was in. It's an established 40 gallon reef but I am planning on moving everybody into a new tank. I can move the live rock out.

Does furan-2 stain silicone?

Humblefish · Dec 28, 2016

Squared said:
Could I just treat all the fish (blenny, two clowns, valentini puffer)? Since they are all in the same tank the anthia was in. It's an established 40 gallon reef but I am planning on moving everybody into a new tank. I can move the live rock out.

Does furan-2 stain silicone?

Furan-2 will turn the water yellow, but it will not permanently stain anything. The main reason not to use it in a DT is it can be harmful to corals & inverts.

Squared · Feb 8, 2017

A couple days ago I noticed the redness reappear on the angel. I've been feeding him focus+metro in his food until I have time to move him again.

Is a relapse unusual? Last time I treated for at least two weeks with furan 2 and kanaplex, and it went away. Any long term harm in doing another extended round of antibiotics?

melypr1985 · Feb 8, 2017

Squared said:
Is a relapse unusual? Last time I treated for at least two weeks with furan 2 and kanaplex, and it went away. Any long term harm in doing another extended round of antibiotics?

It does happen if meds weren't administered long enough to completely rid the fish of the bacteria. Another, longer round would be a good plan.

Squared · Feb 8, 2017

Would a month be too long? On the packaging of kanamycin it says it should be administered for a maximum of 3 doses.

Humblefish · Feb 8, 2017

Squared said:
Would a month be too long? On the packaging of kanamycin it says it should be administered for a maximum of 3 doses.

Ideally, you only want to treat with antibiotics for 10 consecutive days. Long than that and you risk the fish developing resistance.

Squared · Feb 8, 2017

You mean the bacteria would develop resistance. A longer treatment would probably kill all the bacteria, but I'm also worried about the potential harm antibiotics have on the fish.

Since I did not kill all the bacteria the first time they may be resistant now, which would really suck. I will keep a close eye on fish, the redness is just barely there but it is there. Fingers crossed that continued feeding of metro and focus clear it up.

jenreefer · Feb 8, 2017

That is a beautiful fish, I would hate to see you lose it. You should consider treating with multiple antibiotics together to get this under control.

Reefahholic · Feb 8, 2017

Stopping the treatment early is more dangerous than going longer. If you terminate the treatment early or under dose...you run the risk of creating a MDRO (Multi Drug Resistant Organism). The organism can develope resistance to that specific antibiotic. Never under dose or stop treatment. The only time you would ever stop antibiotic therapy is if a particular fish is having an adverse reaction. Then you'd only pull the fish having issues and keep any others rolling in the medicated tank.

Squared · Feb 8, 2017

I've had the angel for over 3 years, so it's really strange and depressing that this is a problem now. Looks like I will go with furan-2 + kanaplex + metro, since I have that on hand. I am going to try and keep up the dosages of all 3 for as long as possible this time. I will have to call tomorrow but one of my LFSs sells other non-aquarium specific antibiotics, but I forgot which ones. Maybe I could try some of that this time.

Humblefish · Feb 9, 2017

Squared said:
You mean the bacteria would develop resistance. A longer treatment would probably kill all the bacteria, but I'm also worried about the potential harm antibiotics have on the fish.

Yes, about the bacteria itself developing resistance (head was pounding last night - couldn't think straight.) However, antibiotics are not capable of 100% eradication of bacteria. Not even insane levels of chlorine can do that.

Antibiotics keep bacteria populations in check until the fish's natural immune system has figured out which antibodies are needed to eliminate them. So, a fish with an unhealthy immune system is usually toast when fighting an infection no matter what you (the hobbyist) do.

Squared · Feb 10, 2017

The sores are not getting worse, it looks like they faded a little. Might depend on the light/angel I'm viewing the fish. If I move him it will be today, but I'm apprehensive since I don't want to stress him out, especially if the metro in the food is already helping.

Anyway, should I find it necessary my LFS sells penicillin, erythromycin, amoxicillin, and ampicillin in tablet and powder form. Has anybody used these on fish before?

Humblefish · Feb 10, 2017

Squared said:
Anyway, should I find it necessary my LFS sells penicillin, erythromycin, amoxicillin, and ampicillin in tablet and powder form. Has anybody used these on fish before?

I used penicillin a long time ago, but remember it being pretty harsh on the fish.

Erythromycin is a good choice, but it only treats gram positive infections. You would need to add minocycline for full spectrum treatment.

No experience with the last two.

Squared · Mar 9, 2017

It's been a while. I haven't treated the fish and it is still with me, but the redness is not going away. I can see what looks like veins now on the underside of the fish. I was just using antibiotics in the food for a couple weeks, school has been crazy and I just have not paying my tanks much attention.

TOMORROW FOR SURE
I will move the fish back to QT
I am going to use metro+furan-2+kanaplex, can i throw API erythromycin into the mix? Since those 3 alone weren't very effective last time.