Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

[brandon429]

What you are really in for:
Hand cleaning, hard work siphon and rasp-removing of accumulations and invasions outside the tank and doing massive water changes is 90% of this thread, peroxide is 10%. We almost never dose peroxide into the tank water, this is a you-work-physically-hard as catch-up thread.

We will make sure the tanks undergoing restoration don't get killed in the process, we use skip cycle biology here and it's universally reliable. Want to see proof that working with peroxide isn’t harming your filter bacteria?

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

Team would anyone with a seneye dose one mil of 3% per ten gallons and lets track if nitrification is affected one iota this data is missing from all of reefing by the way. Dont begin peroxide dosing if you don’t already use it whenev but if someone has already used it and owns a seneye we...

www.reef2reef.com

Our best work example so far in 2020 of full tank GHA clearing, one pass.

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

WVU247


Aquarium invasion is a psychology, not a biology, ironically.


Something -convinces- us to become uninvaded finally. Something convinced us initially to do nothing as a known invader took over, or maybe we didn't even know of alternate actions avail. That's an information issue, not a biological one.


Fewer tanks are made today using real purple live rock with inherent algae competitors / bioexcluding surfaces like coralline algae, or coral flesh. The white rock systems being brought up to spec require the most hand guiding. You likely do not have a tank nutrient issue, we don't need to know your P and N readings. Algae was designed to find a way, like dandelions in a garden. Dandelions means you haven't hand guided, they don't mean your dirt has a nutrient imbalance. Rasping and peroxide is to tank algae like butter knives and sore knees are to keeping dandelions at bay.

Many people learn about the biology of the reef as they have one, not before, since a few ordered steps is all it takes to produce a reef tank. Reefing is more psychology than people realize, or accept

most will have identified their invader and know all nutrient details about their tank as the invader took over. Watch these pages unfold and see how many nutrient readings we employ or require.

This entire thread is a study in unhesitation, peroxide has nothing to do with being deliberate. We could stop your invasion with a butane torch, literally, but peroxide is a better cheat among cheats.
If someone dumps peroxide in the tank and has to sit back and see what happens, that's more hesitation. It’s rare we use that approach, we do for some large tanks that can’t be cleaned easily

However many increments of hesitation we use in our reefing approach, that's how much ground will be under invasion. If someone takes grand action on their tank and already knows what the outcome will be before they run the action, then that's deliberate and they've likely test-modeled something to know what they know.
Here’s someone applying test rock principle so they know about their invader growth potential before planning the big job

0 phosphate/nitrate but abundant algae

Third dose of vibrant dosed. Not seeing any difference yet but i know it takes a while. Picture to follow. Vibrant took about a month of dosing twice a week before I noticed an improvement. But after that it disappeared very quickly and has stayed clear ever since.

www.reef2reef.com

Now you can tell you're in for a ride and a read~if not offended so far, we will get to the art of producing uninvaded after pics.



This thread is about testing small areas of your invasion for compliance -before- upscaling to the whole tank. To earn a state of deliberate reefing, and pure coral and coralline powerful reefs, which stay algae free because coralline outcompetes algae for space ideally (not a nutrient issue at all for us we will soon see) we must start the tank turnaround on one test rock only, being thorough, and see how the invader responds. Deliberation on a beginning scale. Completely opposite behavior from what lead up to the initial invasion.


tanks in this thread eventually need to be de-clouded. Curing a tank invasion resting above an aged sandbed packed with waste isn't really curing, it's temporary balancing.

This sand rinse thread should be ran before our peroxide thread, our peroxide thread deals with invaders typically fed from the bottom areas of the tank

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445


This is the only thread I've seen where someone measures detritus nutrient loading with lab precision

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/substrate-vacuuming-an-analysis.494690/

**Dan continues his peroxide help by studying effects on GHA at the common peroxide dose of 1 mil per 10 gallons, the known safe addition rate for most animals except lysmata shrimps

Hydrogen Peroxide Dosing. 1 mL in 10 Gallons Is A Dud Against GHA

Dosing 3% hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium has been reported as an affective treatment for green hair algae (GHA). Applying it at a rate of 1 mL per 10 gallons, or about 1 ppm, GHA is supposed to die within days. I wondered if this were true because hydrogen peroxide is not stable in an...

www.reef2reef.com

That's why we need to decloud reef tanks undergoing invasion work

Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread (peroxide)

-everything peroxide and algae related in reefing belongs here, even if not peroxide.

we are glad to consider alternate tank cures showing work in others tanks if anyone has them, it's what we have to offer here

Not everyone is going to agree on causative, fixes, this drives good science.


I don't mind if people want to review algae turf scrubber recommends, GFO recommends, we don't oppose any way you can beat algae and document it just the same as what's coming here. We will show how to use peroxide in ways that don't harm non targets.




Be careful of cuts and scrapes when handling poky reef materials, wear eye safety if using higher peroxide percentages. Infections are a potential risk when handling reef substrates, the primary concern is any small open wounds or scrapes and washing hands after work is done. Children that handle reef substrates, water from reef tanks, need to be practicing basic asceptic lab technique as they help. Bacteria are a risk to them, note this.





Some are here just to clean a frag, or single area of concern job won't take five minutes... send us pics of those too




The most important part of the thread to me is that preventative measures like GFo, carbon dosing, ATS, clean up crews, any form of nutrient detailing designed to starve algae are wise as preventatives, but they aren't the totality in being able to generate clean after pics or there would be no demand for what we use.

Consider preventatives uniquely from removers if we are to get past plateaus in current reef tank methods, standing offer.


Thousands of reef tanks followed set rules, got invaded anyway, we will fix many



The cause for all algae problems is leaving algae in the tank after visually seeing some

Many algae will find and attain nutrients if they are simply imported, so quarantine. Many don't qt, and need a handy cheat.

Algae allowed to remain becomes self perpetuating...the word community as in algae community implies collective benefits from being allowed to commune. One example is how tufts of algae collect detritus in the tangles to degrade and feed on-site. Thats one way your green hair algae grows fine when your phosphates test low or zero.






Easy non chemical options:
Lower your bioload, up your exports for the real challenge tanks. Watch out for heavy white LED setups, blasting light meant for sps production into new or non purple rock reef tanks helps algae

white levels down, intensity down, helps algae and diatom issues. Lights on full mode implies you have no algae issues and a tank of healthy growing corals, present your full picture when possible.







Dosing peroxide directly into your water is what everyone wants to do, it's inefficient in most cases. Do work instead



For any tank-wide invader tempting you to dose the whole tank out of frustration with peroxide, get in and clean out your entire system and sandbed back to brand new for having purposefully farmed it in hesitation

If you have a small frag to treat, post pics and congrats on early action.

 

[brandon429]

Is H2O2 dosing the secret to clean rocks?

Bmwm235i That truly is the ideal people want by and large, a sort of internal balance vs external work dosing.

www.reef2reef.com

look at the various ways people use peroxide above added into their water to beat dinos, gha, cyano etc.







Skip to page 2 -------> onward to jump past my opinion typing below and right to the tank before and after pics.

What peroxide works well against, common tank invaders:
**ULVA is the #1 weakest algae to peroxide for some interesting metabolic reason to be determined, Ulva invasions aren't even real work its so easy. luckily.


green hair algae is the second easiest to kill with peroxide, if you rasp it off the rock first and treat the rasp-spot.

invasive macros respond very well and very predictably
Invasive caulerpa conditions
Red gelidium
Dictyota
Lyngbya and chrysophytes and fungal complexes typically respond to creative applications
bryopsis responds in certain treatment conditions (see the use of pastes on down)
works exceptionally well on brush algaes red and green, perhaps the best known treatment above any currently known if urchins don't pan out (a natural invader for them)
it is an excellent, excellent drain and treat to the insider glass where brown calcareous scum and deposits of slime and green form on old or aging tanks at the top water line, among chemicals that can bleed off into your tank and have a controlled outcome this ranks high
Works well as internal glass wipe for brown hazing as a safe cleaner that when it gets in the water sometimes it's not hurting the overall system.







Targets that dont work as well with peroxide, based on web thread repeating variables:
-invasive dinos are hit and miss at many dosage levels. Peroxide has cured many dino tanks, outcomes range. collective abilities from ranging species affords various protections, bio insulating films etc, outcomes range. Peroxide is handy here because among systemic dosers it's rather predictable regarding nontargets, our thread here will show predictions and outcomes.
-cyano: use po4 controls and repeated siphoning, big cleaning for cyano, not meds

-green bubble algae, red valonia variants always die well on initial contact but the resurgence from areas untouched is often profound, rocks that can be removed can be cured of valonia.
-invasive neomeris algae, considered to the be most invasive plant, reponds to nothing, not even chipped removal of the holdfast area and complete rock damage with powerful in tank overdoses. miss one, your new reef gets it. I think neo is the worst invader ive ever seen. dinos second. Some have a rock of neo that doesn't spread, my angle is that if it does, it's incurable. The structure and reproductive approach neomeris uses makes it the most invasive plant species (given X condition) I've seen in fifteen years online reefing.





List of Sensitives, peroxide even in traces might kill:

(External treatments safely address this list below, internal dosing risks them)

1. Lysmata and associated cousins like blood shrimp, part of the amazing things revealed are stark and repeating differences between groups of inverts given to repeated forms of peroxide testing, stenopus boxers are rather tolerant such that mine has been exposed to 15% repeated contact as an experiment to long term habituation. a lysmata comparatively might die if you added a fractional dose of peroxide to your tank. there are one off reports of animals dying with any reef treatment; my goal is to highlight repeating variables. **If a lysmata shrimp is preventing you from saving your tank, it's the wrong time to own a lysmata. The complete ecosystem has priority


2. decorative macro algae for obvious reasons
3. Xenia can wither, sometimes dies but usually recovers
4. anemones like condys heteractis or sebae etc can show stress with dosing, i dont recall any actual losses just shrink responses. follow this thread below to track anemone + peroxide dosing, rock flower anems included.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/did-i-nuke-my-tank.621004/#post-6213959
5. coralline is known to bleach and then come back
6. Hermodice fire worms die in very low concentrations, they too are metabolically significant peroxide weaklings

**we have very little in tank usage data to state whether starfish and relatives hold up well in peroxide dosing, pls let us know your details

Corals as a group are so tolerant of peroxide in various doses that I can't list any immediate sensitives. we apply in ways that minimizes non target contact.


In every case somebody dipped a whole rock and killed and pods, I ask why not just external spot treat as a focused run only on target, and not kill them? For every whole zoanthid colony dipped for five minutes, that's a colony easily lifted out and spot treated, do some work be creative and this can save your tank.

**before dumping peroxide in your tank at the rate of one mil per ten gallons, determine if you are addressing a benthic (anchored to the substrate in some area) or a pelagic (in the water column) invader:

pelagics: typical greenwater which is usually a nutrient issue anyway
dinoflagellates and cyano have pelagic phases as they migrate during diurnal cycles but also share an obvious benthic phase. Any invader you wipe from the inside glass, then it's back next day, likely has a pelagic or water transition phase as it moves back to the glass during nightly cycles. Consider trying classic and oversized (temp setup for your battle) UV for pelagic invaders, again after you cleaned the system free of them. Don't use these cheats as your primary mass remover, that's why so many fail. Your effort removes X mass, the cheat might sustain it gone.

benthic algae: most of what we treat here. anchored stuff. do external direct contact work on thick benthic growths that have holdfasts and not a primary water transition phase.

we get better ground on these threads doing 95% external tank work where posters do tons of access and cleaning work and -then- use peroxide.

Peroxide comes after, or during tank work.


There will always be the outlier, one off or uncommon outcomes in reefing, its being able to establish patterns that counts. We had a poster not long ago kill his tank with a kalk overdose, yet kalk is beneficial. Ill try to highlight the critical patterns so that this cheat can be used to save or prevent the need to restart a tank due to primary producer imbalance.


List of tolerants:

1. I have never seen filtration bacteria respond negatively, and indicate that as free ammonia issues or nitrate rebounds from having killed off denitrifiers, in any dosing combination posted to my threads and this includes gross overdoses.

you dont have to concern about your filter bacteria when working with peroxide in typical settings, our after posts will show. The basis for the statement is the two example threads below.


2. zoanthids
they are nearly indestructible. I doused mine in 35% emersed to purposely try and kill them from invading my tank and they could tolerate direct contact that would otherwise burn human skin to the second or third degree chemical burn. aside from one offs, or stressing already singly stalked and lanky zoanthids mid starvation, peroxide has no bearing on them however you apply it. for the uber costly ones, lets treat them carefully and not be the first to test this so post before pics before dipping them for half an hour

3. most all scleractinian corals
our reference threads show the amazing diversity of collected pics, everything from tridacnid clams to purple sps

4. Reef fish
I know of none to add to the sensitives list, the entire gamut of typical reef fishes exists in our submitted tank theads and other than outliers Ive seen no indication of any targeted susceptibility

5. Pods, microbenthic life, clean up crews
I can post pics anytime of what my rocks look like, knurled, purple, twisty fanworm and sponge growth with crawling ophiuriod stars and gammarids. there are posts of selected dips killing off some pods, so, I dont selectively dip or offer it as a technique very often, but many do it anyway. For the way I use peroxide and calculate it for in-tank work, no to low loss of pods or microbenthics occurs. we'll include that as collateral risks where applicable. I read of pod loss when entire rocks were dipped for five mins, we won't be doing that way, we will be taking tanks apart to really fix them. Snails and crabs have fared well in my referenced thread, 120 pages worth.


Most peroxide challenges start with creative application, to the target not to coral flesh, outside the tank, on a single test rock. The fact a portion of the tank can be used as a model where no mass application of peroxide has occurred makes this method a strong contender for a wide array of challenging tank invaders.


Overdose Tracking_________________________________-

see these accident threads to consider worst case scenarios

EMERGENCY - Overdosed hydrogen peroxide. Help!

Thanks for all the help everyone. Really appreciate the input. I ended up not doing any more than the initial 20 gallon waterchange as other threads on the topic mentioned that the H2O2 will evaporate within an hour or so, and it would have been hours before I got back with any RODI from my...

www.reef2reef.com

Tank Emergency; Not sure as it might be too late

bennies?? is what? a product? Beneficial bacteria in a bottle. I just went through something similar after overdosing nitrates and used fritz 9 after changing out over 100% of my water and experiencing a minor recycle. Someone here has a bunch of threads in which they have experienced almost...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

when someone is linking an algae cure method, any of them, always ask for in a discussion: a series of proof pics generated by users, at least a few threads that can be linked for this evidence, and for them to state the negatives/limitations of the method to check for total bias. no one way is best, if you see that being touted, challenge it. challenge our method as well, we only want to use what can pass scrutiny. I listed things above peroxide isn't best used on along with its highlights, match indications to your tank as needed, run a test rock.






one of the largest peroxide threads is this one as a reference:
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/page-58



This thread below I'm no longer active in, but represents five+ yrs of continual work across tanks. 120 pages of peroxide evolution between just these two threads, there are more but these have the best pic repositories to compare notes

we can discuss treatments here. these references are necessary for those researching the technique. Any tank you want to see being adjusted is in these threads before anything is done in your tank.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359



______________________________________________________________________________________________________


**things to do before dumping peroxide in your tank**
Be creative, minimize nontarget application and maximize target application, don't just dump in the tank.

1. Lift out and spot treat your rocks. Don't avoid work for having skipped is option so far, it gets the most fixes of any method shown. Every initial reco is for external tank work. If we refuse to access rocks outside the tank with work, then below has been decent alternates:

Considering dosing your whole tank because you dont want to remove rocks? How much better is it to take a smaller amount of peroxide, use a diabetic's syringe to slowly inject a test patch (pumps off, still tank) and see how that spot fares before a big commitment? Creativity lessens the peroxide used and maximizes it for the target.


Ever heard of the pill bottle isolator-

one of our thread posters has a Julian Sprung's The THing device which is an injector setup on the end of a hose for feeding, spot dosing anything. On the output end is a large brown pill bottle with a hole in the bottom such that he inserts it into his tank as a temporary housing above a target, injects peroxide slowly into the base, and it concentrates in the pill bottle for a while burning the target with very little and slow bleedoff into the tank. Has lysmata shrimp tolerating it.

What about the underwater paste technique invented on nano-reef.com by other posters that involves baking soda and peroxide pastes to help localize the effect? Their outcomes are excellent and documented in several offshoot threads.


sure there's no way to remove your rocks? drain your tank down and hold the water in brute containers so we can access that eutrophication direct; in-air application of peroxide is the goal compared to submerged application, burns the target orders faster. Having to dose in tank is the last order of operations and is done when elbow grease won't be applied in favor of safety and better outcome.








If you tried peroxide for something and it didnt work, let's change some details and attempt a better outcome. if you haven't tried yet, and have some of the qualifiers for a good run, we get strong results, post your full tank shot.

 

[brandon429]

thank you Matthewdvm first entrant

heads off bryopsis early on before it gains a foothold, two day span

application mode: external removed rock spot treatment (ideal)


prognosis: excellent, an ideal removal system for this invader. his tank is scaped in an accessible way, he's getting this kind of melt off 3%, with access up to 35% were the invader any meaner, and any rock for years to come can simply be lifted out and fried



in time that will lessen, but lets test that.

Matthew if you would, please pop back in months out, tell us if you had to toil over and over to keep this gone or if it lessened over time, id like to know if there were any increases in target biomass even though we didnt change your chemistry at all.
not much algae elsewhere in the tank, no deposits in the corners of the tank showing settling areas or lack of export, all line to me for a good forecast for this tank. it shows me nice feed support, the tank is seeded with nice quality lr casting its details all about, things are on course. you just did chemically what a parrotfish would have done by jaw action in the caymans.

A turning point was chosen, watch the biomass proceed and wait for legit options to work, or cheat and burn and start clean.

I would increase clean up crew load just a little, some margarita snails for example, see if anything helps in the growback prevention. i would not increase phosphate export, there's no evidence for tankwide eutrophication, just localized lr growth, could happen to anyone.

coralline covered rocks select against algae, white to-be-colonized rocks take on the primary producers and begin the micro turf war that is reefing.

 

[choff]

I've been debating between this method, NaOH method glennf touted on his DSR thread or kalk paste to rid myself of a slow growing infestation of Lobophora that came in on a frag plug. Because Lye just scares me I think I'm going to give this method a go this weekend.

I'll give more details and post pics of my progress.

 

[choff]

Ended up buying a blonde naso tang which is supposed to eat this stuff. I decided against spot treating when I looked top down into the tank and saw 2 more patches. There is probably more and a tang is my best bet.

Should that fail, I'll reconsider this option.

 

[brandon429]

CHoff I advocate trying all alternatives first, whatever keeps the biomass from invading is the right move. plus the extra scrutiny against alternatives really tests our method, when it becomes unneeded the method w die out. I have seen instances where tangs kept it under control and it never took over and they had healthy fish, valid option for sure. who doesnt want a self sustaining balance its all our equal goal, try for it

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...3-does-hydrogen-peroxide-clear-water-wow.html

peroxide thread review in Randy's forum. we'll take before and after pics any way we get them, this doser on page two was just doing the 1:10 mentioned above, see the algae targeting. his rock is literally reset in time within a few days to the pre invasion condition. From 100% algae dominant to zero algae in a few days. This example followed the pattern from the assertions above. .. the keeper just dosed the tank at 1:10 and only the algae died.

I do not think peroxide targets algae when dosed to an entire tank. I think if we listed the metabolic peroxide tolerances for every organism we could see or measure in a reef tank, algae is at the most susceptible end of the spectrum and the 1:10 dose was anecdotally proven legit even though nobody from a respectable field of science ever endorsed the idea. Our traction is gained against the grain.

1:10 dosing burns everything, it's just been shown to be insignificant to non targets and significant to pest algae
we've no formal data to prove that, but we do have access to ten thousand after pics asking where the bad outcome was supposed to be. search out any ten page peroxide thread on the web and see if results are good, bad, neutral, such a thread exists here in our general forum. anecdotes from the forum masses drive our science undeniably, you just have to sift for patterns. In our thread here we advocate using 1:10 as a last resort, why burn everything even though you could prob get away with it

 

[brandon429]

So happy for Steve J to work with us for the technique. These latest pics are work done via pm with the aquarists, done recently, ideally this thread will show the latest varieties of invaders we are battling

Invasive red brush algae, could be one of many genera

External treatment technique, no rinse, just dieoff. Simple as that

prognosis: expect repeat runs this is what took me a year to beat in my own tank. Per the obligate hitchhiker rules above, once beaten it is independent of nutrients and dependent on present biomass to be an invader. you kill this invader by sheer will, just disallow it, measure nothing regarding phosphate.

if my tank is left running in a terrible state of waste and overfeed, this algae wont develop, GHA and cyano will. I worked hard to kill this off, retreats expected until you wipe out all the holdfasts. the very first run reduces 90% of the biomass and 10% is the retreat work, easy to beat. Peroxide is outstanding against red and green brush algae. Has a notable death time, 7+ days. looks like nothing happened in the first week, and sometimes a second dose is needed, then these kinds of after pics follow consistently:

Look at the eutrophication reversal above, pre treatment and post on the sandbed and in the corners of the tank. part of the physical action of peroxide is directly acting on organics, and in some situations that leaves a very clean outcome when coupled with good export and a redo of tank current and wc balances.

Oxidizer use in eutrophication reversal has a years long history in freshwater lake and river management, entire industries exist to correct fish kill and eutrophication in giant water systems, oxidizer use is sometimes indicated and has similar cleaning effects on natural models as well. in time we'll link some of the articles here, if anyone finds them on google scholar link up.

Tracking a massive overdose outcome:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...-peroxide-best-kept-secret-algae-dinos-2.html

no loss. using peroxide in a controlled manner is predictable as shown above even when overdoses are accident. you can use peroxide in tank around sps, lps and most inverts

 

[brandon429]

kicking up this thread to add options to a few algae threads that have come about, this method is strong, we have done more saves in the last few mos w link back a few more here as we update.


anyone, feel free to post your full tank shot, we w make a prediction, a treatment method, a long term prediction, and await an outcome pic

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/id-request-red-plants-and-spikey-plant.205051/page-2#post-2358589


one more down for the count!

 

[brandon429]

r2r peroxide use is ramping up nicely

I'm in several pms right now about hair algae

we're winning

 

[WetWhistle]

So I have a question about one of your statements OP.

'"peroxide is a bandaid, you aren't dealing with the source" is a good challenge statement, I think it actually doesn't apply so there is great discourse awaiting dissection of this topic'

How do you come to the conclusion that peroxide is a bandaid doesn't apply? Let me ask you this, when you use peroxide are you targeting the cause of the algae outbreak or the algae itself? Answer: You are targeting the algae not the cause. Does peroxide use resolve or fix in any way the original issue that caused the problem algae to bloom in the first place? Answer: No it does not treat or fix the cause of the problem but only treats the outcome\ symptom (algae) as it does not take any steps to troubleshoot or fix the cause.

So if you are not taking any steps to stop or troubleshoot what is causing the issue in the first place how is this peroxide not a bandaid? Any fix that does not resolve what caused the issue in the first place is a temporary fix. (aka bandaid) After all you are only targeting the outcome\symptom (algae) and not what caused it in the first place. If you have not changed or fixed what is causing it, it is just going to come back. If you have a flat tire and fall off your bike because you have one and only put a bandaid on the wound and get back on. You are going to fall off again as you have done nothing to fix the flat tire except put a bandaid on you wound. If you had fixed the flat tire in the first place you would have fixed what made you fall off.

If you are advocating temp fixes (not saying you are) and not taking any steps to rectify the cause of your issue what you are pretty much saying is old bulbs, bad husbandry practice, over feeding, high organics etc don't matter because you can just treat it with peroxide. No big deal.

Don't get me wrong I do think there is a time and place for this kind of tool to help fight problem algae and their has been some good results over a short period of time with this option. But it should by far not be the first option like many people are doing. People should be troubleshooting and exhausting other options first of what caused the algae bloom and not jumping on temp fixes off the hop. Ask yourself this what does this do long term to your reef tank and its inhabitants? What does it do to your crustacean population like pods? What unknown mutations is this causing? We all know chemicals cause mutations. Have you seen any safe long term usage tests that had no side effects?

I have noticed over the years through my experience a good majority of the times an issue happens is it is caused by the hobbyist and something they did or what they should have done but didn't. This type of quick temp fix has lead to lazy reef keepers that don't change their bad husbandry habits that got them into trouble in the first place and they don't bother to do any research. First thing they do is start a thread on R@R called 'what do I do' yet they never bothered to do research or look for another thread on the same topic first.

I developed proper habits early on in this hobby and I haven't had any problem algae blooms in over 25+ years that are not easily handled. Why you ask? Because I did my proper research, set my tank up with the appropriate amount of utility fish and animals (tangs, urchin, snails etc) and I don't use temp fixes. I target the root cause of any issues before they become a problem and I am not lazy at upkeep. If you do your research and set your tank up properly you don't need these quick chemical fixes. You have your knowledge base and experience as your weapon.

Just my two cents.

 

[brandon429]

Excellent input, appreciated~
I am wanting that review and challenge those are good points to address.

Before we get into these classic theory debates, id ask for at least an apples to apples comparison. My examples above aren't from my tank, they are from others tanks along with outcome predictions, the negatives stated aren't panning out I'll try to show.

As this peroxide challenge thread grows, you will read of posters doing endless nutrient detailing from day 1 who still have invasions, they used to get left behind. To me, an algae control opinion has to come from work done in others tanks not just our own, results are often drastic between the two. What works between the two might just be for real

Consider here: how happy was the op with the results, and how do before and after pics and predicted time frames and predicted nontarget losses pan out? How mad was the traditional guy with no actual stake in the thread
http://reef2reef.com/threads/algae-algae-algae.229043/

Why is it the old school backbone algae control methods aren't providing enough cure to edge us out?

The number one way to stop the progression of peroxide use is to show command over any other method and link it for review. ATS threads are massive and have a big following, any reader here can use myriad online options for algae this is only one.

The longer we keep getting these results, the more the words peroxide+reef tank will haunt traditional reef tank paradigms

 

[dghby]

OK, peroxide huh?? I have what I would consider a bad problem with GHA (green hair algea) which seems to be getting worst. whats the plan??
important to mention I work strange hours and am in bed most night by 6pm so it may take me awhile to get back to you on things.
FIRST, a tank pic.
the majority of the problem is near to upper right side of the right rock formation, although I am beginning to see GHA show up all over the tank including on the overflow box which is on the left side of the tank.

 

[dghby]

Close up pics of the most extreme cases of GHA which are focused on the right rock formation towards the upper right side of the rocks.

 

[brandon429]

thanks for the pic thats highly workable as you have an open scape and no obvious sensitives i can see but be sure to read the list... consider this simplicity:

doesnt appear high bioload, no cruddy deep sand bed, cant see the underneath but why would it be any dirtier, Im assuming you are using zero tds water for TO and makeup, if not, start, but thats independent of a fix of the algae in two days which is the turnaround time if you'll take time to lift out the rocks and simply do the spot apply.

Your sustainment time will range based on tank variables. if people were getting growback as a total waste of time for this, you'd see that posted in the reference threads, instead of my tank looks great. It tends to stay gone weeks or months and then regrowth ranges based again on tank variables (someone using marco rocks for ex may find worse growback vs someone with standard cured lr, all kinds of variables)

*this is a nice interim time to reinspect nutrient pathways and try and maximize them in your favor, i never said to ignore nutrients, just that they aren't the sole cause of many tank issues, farming it on purpose is (some didnt know the alternatives)
you have a slight grazer imbalance. I have a zero grazer balance in my tank, simply because i am algae free from having disallowed it, didnt need them.

if your regrowth is such that the original treatment wasnt worth it, we did no harm in buying you the time free of algae for the test. Just a few short years ago, this kind of work was considered dangerous to even attempt, it took 60 page threads to show otherwise, and now we're showing nutrients dont have to be OCD chased to be algae free, a rule breaking claim i agree.

 

[WetWhistle]

I totally agree nutrients don't have to be pounded into the ground. I myself don't test for them. I have no idea what my numbers are at as I have not tested them in almost a year. I go by look not numbers. I would not recommend this approach unless you are experienced though.

@Dghb,

What is your flow like? I noticed you have different lights on the left side then you do on the right. What are they?

 

[dghby]

I totally agree nutrients don't have to be pounded into the ground. I myself don't test for them. I have no idea what my numbers are at as I have not tested them in almost a year. I go by look not numbers. I would not recommend this approach unless you are experienced though.

@Dghb,

What is your flow like? I noticed you have different lights on the left side then you do on the right. What are they?

Lights are black box LEDS on both side with 2 T5 Blue plus lights on the left side in conjunction with LEDS. the LEDS on the left side are at 25% for whites and 45% for the blues. I just added the T5's a couple days ago, this GHA has been there well before the T5 lights were added.
My flow is 2 rw8 wavemakers in the front and 2 korilia 1100's in the back. one on each side front and back of course. the return pump is a DC1000 which is on speed 4 of 6.

 

[brandon429]

Wet W thats a reasonable take. Anyone who can find and maintain a balance in their system where the least work is needed has it ideal.

I like this thead to be simply a fix of algae, even if we do use nutrient controls, dont mind at all. Anyone should post whatever they want that pertains to algae wars in general, our little after pics will work their way in over time.

If anyone wants to post a nutrient controlled correction, do! this is a compare and contrast thread we want every challenge known, out in the open, raw testing and the harshest tanks thrown our way. as soon as someone posts a true ostreopsis dino invasion ill go right to dinoXal additive and forego the peroxide lol.

magnesium for the bryopsis tankers? no prob, our spot injectors work well with that fluid again saving a full tank water table adjustment. we just want fixed tanks.



Im disappointed in our ability to fight algae after 30+ yrs and myriad books on the issue, there should be no need for peroxide after this long if those were really the full answers all this time. People aren't commanding it very well, by and large, so we meet a large need.

When I tried nutrient controls on my first pico reef, the algae won. When I took control of my second reef in spite of having no formal permission to do so and acted independent of nutrients, algae was permanently gone and I spent less time working on my tank, not more, polar opposite outcome of what the rules allowed.

want to show how to attain that finality using a method that may be the swing vote for some problem algae tanks, and is one heck of a controversial science worthy of the harshest scrutiny which I'm expecting and benefit from
B

 

[brandon429]

Bump

As of right now I have 3 private convos going on regarding hair algae. Two threads in the chem forum are about impacts of whole tank dosing

Wanted to kick up this tread w all the info