Algae Turf Scrubber or Roller Filter?

[ajtomase]

I'm looking to get either a roller filter, or an algae turf scrubber to help control phosphates and nitrates (don't want refugium, use GFO/Rowaphos, a bio pellet reactor, or NOPOX).

Who has a favorite that won't bottom out nutrients?

 

[Reefering1]

They all can help bottom out nutrients if mis managed

 

[ajtomase]

They all can help bottom out nutrients if mis managed

Ok, then between the two which one is the least aggressive?

 

[twentyleagues]

I guess it depends on if you care about mechanical filtration or not. You can turn down the lighting in an ats to help control the nutrient level. You can also turn off the roller. In either scenario you lose or wont have mechanical filtration. I voted ats as I think its more controllable. I use mechanical filtration 1-2 days a week only after my coral snow treatment. When I had my reef years ago and stopped using filter socks my nitrate and phosphate actually decreased and polyp extension increased. If you dont clean or change that stuff on a very regular basis maybe every 2 days or less I think it just adds nitrate and phosphate to the water, yeah it catches stuff but never really had noticed much difference without it. With the filter roller its handled for you but I think it also is more efficient and pulls too much out.

 

[Naekuh]

There 2 different things completely...

One filters particulate, along with stuff in water column.
The other pulls nitrates and phosphates, to grow algae, to prevent algae, and keep the NO3 and PO4 levels low.

Roller requires very little maintenance, 0 water testing, its either working, or not.

The ATS, requires constant water testing, so you don't 0 out on one of above.
Requires tuning the light cycle, so you don't 0 out.
Requires you scrubbing the algae off every few weeks or so.

Your asking, what is better, a vacation home at the beach, or in the desert, without telling us if you prefer dry weather or a humid environment.

In most cases, if you can afford it, people will say get BOTH.

 

[twentyleagues]

There 2 different things completely...

One filters particulate, along with stuff in water column.
The other pulls nitrates and phosphates, to grow algae, to prevent algae, and keep the NO3 and PO4 levels low.

Roller requires very little maintenance, 0 water testing, its either working, or not.

The ATS, requires constant water testing, so you don't 0 out on one of above.
Requires tuning the light cycle, so you don't 0 out.
Requires you scrubbing the algae off every few weeks or so.

Your asking, what is better, a vacation home at the beach, or in the desert, without telling us if you prefer dry weather or a humid environment.

In most cases, if you can afford it, people will say get BOTH.

Roller will pull stuff that helps create n and p also. I think its one reason we see so many why cant I or how do you increase n and p now a days.

 

[Naekuh]

Roller will pull stuff that helps create n and p also. I think its one reason we see so many why cant I or how do you increase n and p now a days.

i don't think the roller has that big of a responsibility on that.
I think a Skimmer does way more then a roller could in pulling excessive stuff out.

I use normal socks which i replace every week.
I also use a skimmer.
I had a chaeto reactor, but, my PO4 has been almost bottoming out.

I use a refugium with a lot of macro algae like dragons breath and string or pearls along with a very slow growing blue hepnya.

And it looks a heck of a lot prettier then a ATS, but probably isn't anywhere near as aggressive.
However my Tang and foxface love the red macro algae.

 

[UMALUM]

If I truly cared what my no3 and po4 were I'd probably choose the scrubber.
Get your test kits ready.

 

[twentyleagues]

i don't think the roller has that big of a responsibility on that.
I think a Skimmer does way more then a roller could in pulling excessive stuff out.

I use normal socks which i replace every week.
I also use a skimmer.
I had a chaeto reactor, but, my PO4 has been almost bottoming out.

I use a refugium with a lot of macro algae like dragons breath and string or pearls along with a very slow growing blue hepnya.

And it looks a heck of a lot prettier then a ATS, but probably isn't anywhere near as aggressive.
However my Tang and foxface love the red macro algae.

I also use a large fuge. Mostly from looks but I have caulerpa and dragons breath. The two caulerpa feather and bubble grow very fast consuming nitrate and phosphate keeping them low. Very little if any mechanical filtration. In my previous reef life I found socks to increase nitrate and phosphate if not changed at least every 2 days.

 

[Treefer32]

I have both. So, I can't pick one!

The roller mat I use to filter particles out of the water. My display looked like a snow storm with so many particles circulating in the water column. I need mechanical filtration to keep the water clear. I don't know if it removes phosphates or not. I still have phosphates, soooo.

I use the algae turf scrubber to filter out phosphates. I clean that out every 7-10 days and get a large softball sized ball of hair algae every time.

But I feed a lot and have a large 340 gallon tank. That said, the concepts would be the same for smaller tanks. Scrubber's purpose is to remove nutrients through algae growth.

Mechanical filtration like a reef mat or filter socks is to help have clearer water (as well as be a first line of defense before food and fish poop breaks down into phosphates and nitrate organics.)

I also run a skimmer. So, I run all three forms of filtration. . . .
To make the decision, my advise is to make sure you know what problem you're looking to solve and purchase the appropriate tools / methodologies to what you're willing to do to manage the problem.

 

[SantaMonica]

Roll / fleece filters are just mechanical filters, like skimmers, so everything about skimmers applies to roll filters too, except skimmers oxygenate, whereas roll filters don't.

The easiest way to compare scrubbers to rollers or skimmers is to think about food. Food is "organic" and should not to be confused with human food "organic non-gmo food etc" that you eat.

Nutrients, However are "inorganic", and should not be confused with human food nutrients that you eat.

Scrubbers remove inorganics from the water: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, CO2, copper, etc, but do not remove food particles.

Scrubbers add organics to the water: Glucose, amino acids, vitamin C, etc. Oxygen and copepods too.

Protein skimmers, however, do the opposite. That's why they have the word "protein" in the name.

Skimmers remove food particles and copepods from the water, but do not remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, CO2, copper, etc.


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And also...

Zero Nutrients

Many people newer to aquariums and especially scrubbers have heard that reducing nutrients to "zero" (nitrate, phosphate, etc as measured by hobby test kits) is not good for coral growth. The answer is, it depends. "Zero" is not really zero of course; hobby test kits don't need to test super low levels like lab tests do. In other words, there is always a level of nutrients there, even if you have "all zeros".

First thing to know is that natural reefs always test "zero" for nutrients with hobby test kits. Yet, they have very high growth rates; acro's can grow two feet in one year. But yes, many hobbyists do see less growth with zero nutrients. Why is this, and what is different with tanks compared to natural reefs?

One answer is food particles. The enormous amount of visible food particles (and invisible dissolved particles) in natural reefs is so high that at night some divers can't see their own hands. And the enormous level of photosynthesis on reefs consumes most of the resulting nutrients. But hobbyists can't have this level of food particles because of nutrient build up, so they reduce feeding, to as little as 1/1000 of natural reef levels. Thus, corals starve.

So one bandaid to help with this is to keep tank nutrients above "zero". This feeds bacteria around the corals, and the bacteria then become coral food. Softies take it in directly, by inflating with water, and polyps eat the microbes and pods that eat the bacteria.

This works but is self-limiting, because in most cases higher levels of phosphate is going to slow the coral growth, and also because bacteria are hard for polyps to grab. So the trick is to keep food particle levels up high, and keep nutrients down low, at the same time. In other words, try to duplicate natural reefs.

This is where algal filtration comes in. Just like on natural reefs, algae remove nitrate, phosphate, nitrite, ammonia, ammonium, etc, but do not remove food particles. In fact, algae will add food to the water, by putting glucose, amino acids, vitamin C and other sugars into the water just like some people dose. And just like carbon dosing, the glucose feeds more bacteria which both feeds the corals and consumes more nutrients.

And don't forget the last step of feeding some or all of the algae to the fish. This gives fish the type of fresh living algae that they want, without adding any new nutrients to the water from outside food sources.

 

[Treefer32]

Great write up! Much better said than me. One part I may somewhat disagree with. My fish two large tangs and 4 large reef safe angel fish, all would not touch hair algae from my scrubber. My luck, the hair algae would attach to a rock and start growing in the display. It would not feed any of my inhabitants other than maybe my abalone snail. Doubtful though as he seems very happy with the amount of algae I let grow on the glass....

 

[SantaMonica]

If you can't feed it to the fish, just optimize so you harvest the most per month.