All for Reef

bossman818

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
226
Reaction score
195
Location
canyon country
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have been dosing all for Reef for about a month now and all is ok but calcium is dropping. I am guessing this is happening because I overdosed. When this happens, do you guys dose calcium or just lower dosing so levels adjust on their own? Alk is now 8.3 calcium 380 mag is 1230. What’s your thoughts, please and thank you!
 

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have been dosing all for Reef for about a month now and all is ok but calcium is dropping. I am guessing this is happening because I overdosed. When this happens, do you guys dose calcium or just lower dosing so levels adjust on their own? Alk is now 8.3 calcium 380 mag is 1230. What’s your thoughts, please and thank you!
I am not sure I understand, but maybe this will help.

Overdosing AFR will not cause calcium to drop. An overdose would cause calcium to rise.

Also, AFR provides a little excess calcium compared to what is consumed by calcification in the tank. AFR (like kalkwasser) doses about 10% extra calcium than is needed for the alkalinity it doses. Most people see calcium levels rise over time if they are keeping stable alkalinity. Water changes are helpful in keeping calcium from rising too much.

So, I suspect that your calcium measurement is most likely a testing error. I find that calcium test kits are somewhat imprecise/inaccurate. I actually only test calcium once or twice a year at home, and I only take action on based on calcium measurements from the occasional ICP test. I am a longtime AFR user and if I don’t do regular water changes my calcium rises above where I like it.

If you are keeping alkalinity steady where you want it, then your AFR dose is right.

I hope that helps.
 

rc8t6353

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
900
Reaction score
1,718
Location
NWI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I also recently started with AFR and had the same issue. I keep some two part and Mag around to dose individually depending on what's low when I test. If this is wrong, someone please let me know lol
 

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I also recently started with AFR and had the same issue. I keep some two part and Mag around to dose individually depending on what's low when I test. If this is wrong, someone please let me know lol
I cannot say for sure that it’s wrong, but I would not recommend that approach.

As long as your AFR dose is sufficient to maintain alkalinity, it should also provide all the calcium (and then some) and all the magnesium that is consumed. I personally trust the math and our knowledge of how alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium are consumed (well articulated by @Randy Holmes-Farley) more than I trust the accuracy or precision of a home test for calcium and especially magnesium.

Alkalinity tests, in my experience, are sufficiently accurate and repeatable.

Sharing what I have learned…For each 2.8 dKH of alkalinity consumed, about 18 ppm calcium and 1-2 ppm magnesium are also consumed. Any calcium or magnesium test results that vary widely from that are suspect, in my opinion.

I cannot think of a reason why someone maintaining alkalinity with AFR would need to supplement calcium or magnesium unless the water used in water changes is well outside the target range.

We have some true experts here that can weigh in.
 

Mr. Mojo Rising

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
8,400
Reaction score
9,649
Location
Toronto
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Was your alk and calcium set before you started AFR, or are you using AFR to increase the alk and calcium? Have you tested your tanks consumption, or using trial and error to dial in the AFR?
 

rc8t6353

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
900
Reaction score
1,718
Location
NWI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I was using kalkwasser for awhile for calcium and Alk but switched to AFR. I still dose some kalk at night but AFR does the heavy lifting. I also switched salts to one with a higher Alk. I'm by no means an expert and the only reason I dose any two part is because it says to do so in the instructions that came with the AFR bottle. And when I do, I add sparingly and retest. I'll admit I haven't really tested to find consumption. I just test every 3 days, and if I see a downward trend, I'll dose to bring whichever parameter up, then increase the AFR dose a little to keep in range.
PXL_20241218_115207610.jpg
 

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Maybe test error. This is my calcium test results for almost a year using AFR.
Screenshot_20241212-133354.png
that’s good data. Do you do water changes? I ask because about a year ago my ICP showed calcium at 570 after about 18 months of AFR and Kalk and not many water changes. I’ve been consistent about water changes ever since and my test a couple of weeks ago showed calcium at 440.
 

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Was your alk and calcium set before you started AFR, or are you using AFR to increase the alk and calcium? Have you tested your tanks consumption, or using trial and error to dial in the AFR?
That’s a good question. I assumed calcium was near target before starting AFR.
 

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I was using kalkwasser for awhile for calcium and Alk but switched to AFR. I still dose some kalk at night but AFR does the heavy lifting. I also switched salts to one with a higher Alk. I'm by no means an expert and the only reason I dose any two part is because it says to do so in the instructions that came with the AFR bottle. And when I do, I add sparingly and retest. I'll admit I haven't really tested to find consumption. I just test every 3 days, and if I see a downward trend, I'll dose to bring whichever parameter up, then increase the AFR dose a little to keep in range.
PXL_20241218_115207610.jpg
Cannot fault you for following directions! Though I find it works best to adjust my AFR dose based on alkalinity tests only.
 

exnisstech

Grumpy old man
View Badges
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
11,651
Reaction score
17,806
Location
Ashland Ohio
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
that’s good data. Do you do water changes? I ask because about a year ago my ICP showed calcium at 570 after about 18 months of AFR and Kalk and not many water changes. I’ve been consistent about water changes ever since and my test a couple of weeks ago showed calcium at 440.
Tank is about 65g total. I do random 2g water changes to remove detritus that gathers in one corner. Maybe once every two weeks or so. I don't really track WCs like I do on my other tanks where I depend on them.
 
Last edited:

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Tank is about 65g total. I do random 2g water changes to remove detritus that gathers in one corner. Maybe once ever two weeks or so. I don't really track WCs like I do on my other tanks where I depend on them.
Well, that is really really stable calcium. Is your alkalinity similarly stable?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
74,440
Reaction score
73,185
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I agree with the assertion that if alk is being maintained with AFR, calcium will not decline unless water changes, salinity changes, or test error are causing the apparent drop.

AFR actually cause a slow calcium rise when used to maintain alk.

If anyone believes calcium is low, use calcium chloride to raise it, not AFR, since AFR will raise alk by 2.8 dKH for every 20 ppm boost to calcium.
 

exnisstech

Grumpy old man
View Badges
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
11,651
Reaction score
17,806
Location
Ashland Ohio
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Well, that is really really stable calcium. Is your alkalinity similarly stable?
It been pretty good. I've had a few dips and rises but nothing drastic. I've had to tweak my dose amount a few times. I'm not really sure about that 10.1 spike. I reduced the amount of AFR by 3ml and it settled back down.
Screenshot_20241218-090816.png
Screenshot_20241218-090828.png
Screenshot_20241218-090843.png
Screenshot_20241218-090853.png
Screenshot_20241218-090943.png
 

rishma

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
785
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It been pretty good. I've had a few dips and rises but nothing drastic. I've had to tweak my dose amount a few times. I'm not really sure about that 10.1 spike. I reduced the amount of AFR by 3ml and it settled back down.
Screenshot_20241218-090816.png
Screenshot_20241218-090828.png
Screenshot_20241218-090843.png
Screenshot_20241218-090853.png
Screenshot_20241218-090943.png
That’s very solid. I am always skeptical of calcium tests, but that could be due to my own inadequacy in running the test. What are you using to do the calcium test? I’m just surprised your calcium doesn’t rise over time.
 

exnisstech

Grumpy old man
View Badges
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
11,651
Reaction score
17,806
Location
Ashland Ohio
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That’s very solid. I am always skeptical of calcium tests, but that could be due to my own inadequacy in running the test. What are you using to do the calcium test? I’m just surprised your calcium doesn’t rise over time.
I test calcium with salifert. Alk tested with Hanna.
I'm surprised the calcium hasn't risen also. From what I've read it tends to slowly increase but I'm not seeing that on this tank, at least not yet.
 
OP
OP
B

bossman818

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
226
Reaction score
195
Location
canyon country
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Before I started all for reef my alk was around 7.7 calcium around 440 and mag around 1300. I was chasing numbers but low calcium really threw me off. Well it’s not so low but lower than I’m used to. I was under the impression at 8.3 alk would keep calcium a little above the 400s.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
74,440
Reaction score
73,185
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Before I started all for reef my alk was around 7.7 calcium around 440 and mag around 1300. I was chasing numbers but low calcium really threw me off. Well it’s not so low but lower than I’m used to. I was under the impression at 8.3 alk would keep calcium a little above the 400s.

Adding AFR to maintain alk will maintain or elevate calcium over time.

But other things, such as alk added in other ways (tap water, declining nitrate, etc.), or water changes with a mix that has high alk and normal or low calcium, can mess with that, as, of course, can testing error.

It might seem counterintuitive, but if the tank is at 8 dKH and 440 ppm calcium and uses AFR or any balanced additive to maintain alk and calcium, water changes with a mix that has 11 dKH and 440 ppm calcium will cause calcium to decline over time.
 

TOP 10 Trending Threads

ARE YOUR PARAMETERS "WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS"? SHARE WHAT YOUR PARAMETERS ARE IN THE COMMENTS!

  • All of my parameters are.

    Votes: 30 22.4%
  • Most of my parameters are.

    Votes: 57 42.5%
  • Some of my parameters are.

    Votes: 12 9.0%
  • Few of my parameters are.

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • None of my parameters are.

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • I'm not sure what my parameters are today...

    Votes: 24 17.9%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 7 5.2%
Back
Top