Any idea what’s going on with my Emperor Angel?

[LPS Bum]

Hi everyone,

Looking for a little help with a disease identification. I’ve had this 5 inch Emperor in my 240 FOWLR for the last 6 months. I came back from a vacation and he was sitting listless in a corner, breathing hard.

He’s already been through a 1 month QT with therapeutic Copper Power. He spent another 3 weeks in an acclimation box once I put him in my display, and has done well until recently. Always ate well, no breathing problems, etc. He would get chased and nipped by an Annularis Angel on occasion.

I immediately removed him from the display, gave him a 2 min pH adjusted freshwater dip, and put him back in my QT tank. I started treatment with both Kanaplex and Metroplex. I figured the fish was a goner but he’s still alive after 24 hours But he’s not eating, he’s still breathing hard and he’s just laying on the bottom or in my plastic flower pots (for cover).

I see no evidence of Crypt or Velvet (no spots despite how the photo may look, no flashing, no scratching, etc). Does this look like a bad bacterial infection? Any treatment protocols I haven’t thought of? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jekyl]

Can you detail your quarantine method a little better? What level was the copper at and what was used to test?

 

[vetteguy53081]

N

Hi everyone,

Looking for a little help with a disease identification. I’ve had this 5 inch Emperor in my 240 FOWLR for the last 6 months. I came back from a vacation and he was sitting listless in a corner, breathing hard.

He’s already been through a 1 month QT with therapeutic Copper Power. He spent another 3 weeks in an acclimation box once I put him in my display, and has done well until recently. Always ate well, no breathing problems, etc. He would get chased and nipped by an Annularis Angel on occasion.

I immediately removed him from the display, gave him a 2 min pH adjusted freshwater dip, and put him back in my QT tank. I started treatment with both Kanaplex and Metroplex. I figured the fish was a goner but he’s still alive after 24 hours But he’s not eating, he’s still breathing hard and he’s just laying on the bottom or in my plastic flower pots (for cover).

I see no evidence of Crypt or Velvet (no spots despite how the photo may look, no flashing, no scratching, etc). Does this look like a bad bacterial infection? Any treatment protocols I haven’t thought of? Thanks in advance.

Need a brighter and clearer pic but looks to be velvet or ich but the shading of light does not depict which is which.
What copper level did you treat at and metro is used too easily and must be used precisely and should not ne mixed with kanaplex.

 

[LPS Bum]

Can you detail your quarantine method a little better? What level was the copper at and what was used to test?

Sure. I've QT'd probably 80 fish over the years, so I have a pretty good handle on it.

I have a bare bottom, 29 gal QT. Heater, power filter, powerhead, cheap LED light, etc. I use Copper Power, at 2.25 ppm for 30 days (for Angels like this one, because it gives me a little wiggle room between the min 2.0 and the max 2.5 ppm dose). I let the new fish settle in for a week and start eating well before beginning treatment. I ramp up the copper slowly over the course of 3-4 days. I use a Hannah checker.

This fish went through QT 6 months ago, so this isn't an issue with the fish being recently added. And all the other fish in the DT are doing fine. This literally popped up while I was on vacation.

 

[LPS Bum]

N

Need a brighter and clearer pic but looks to be velvet or ich but the shading of light does not depict which is which.
What copper level did you treat at and metro is used too easily and must be used precisely and should not ne mixed with kanaplex.

The picture makes the fish look like it has spots, but in person it doesn't look that way. No spots on the fins either. No scratching. No flashing. No swimming into a powerhead, etc. The usual symptoms you see with Velvet or Crypt.

The fish has also been in my DT for 6 months now and has done well, and all the other fish are fine. No symptoms on any of them, which to me rules out Velvet at least. And this fish, like all my others, went through a full 30 days in therapeutic Copper Power.

Could this be bacterial?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Bactr

The picture makes the fish look like it has spots, but in person it doesn't look that way. No spots on the fins either. No scratching. No flashing. No swimming into a powerhead, etc. The usual symptoms you see with Velvet or Crypt.

The fish has also been in my DT for 6 months now and has done well, and all the other fish are fine. No symptoms on any of them, which to me rules out Velvet at least. And this fish, like all my others, went through a full 30 days in therapeutic Copper Power.

Could this be bacterial?

Bacterial would show worse than in pics but with heavy breathing gives suspect cause of flukes but Freshwater dip should have offered temporary relief with the dip and container mat even have revealed some flukes that have fallen off IF present.

 

[Tommy's Reef]

Do you see slime could be brooklynella

 

[LPS Bum]

Bactr

Bacterial would show worse than in pics but with heavy breathing gives suspect cause of flukes but Freshwater dip should have offered temporary relief with the dip and container mat even have revealed some flukes that have fallen off IF preseI looked closely at the dip container but didn't see anything come off the fish.

Yep, I looked closely at the dip container using a flashlight but I didn't see anything come off of him.

I'm hesitant to start another round of Copper Power right now, because the fish is really struggling and I'm afraid the copper might kill him. I guess I'll keep treating for a bacterial/parasitic infection for a few more days and see how things play out. If by some miracle he pulls through and starts eating I can give him another round of copper, but I think he's too weak for it right now.

 

[LPS Bum]

Do you see slime could be brooklynella

I wondered about that too, but I didn't see anything come off of him during the dip, nor in QT over the last 24 hours. No skin sloughing like you'd expect with Brook, though he has lost a lot of color and his fins are ragged (that could be due to nipping though).

That's why I figured maybe it was a bacterial infection. I guess I'll keep treating for that over the next few days and see what shakes out. At least he's now isolated in my QT, with no one bothering him.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I wondered about that too, but I didn't see anything come off of him during the dip, nor in QT over the last 24 hours. No skin sloughing like you'd expect with Brook, though he has lost a lot of color and his fins are ragged (that could be due to nipping though).

That's why I figured maybe it was a bacterial infection. I guess I'll keep treating for that over the next few days and see what shakes out. At least he's now isolated in my QT, with no one bothering him.

Flukes often not seen but after a FW dip you will see spots, sometimes bleeding. Additionally, red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color.

 

[LPS Bum]

Flukes often not seen but after a FW dip you will see spots, sometimes bleeding. Additionally, red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color.

Ok, thanks. Appreciate your input.

Perhaps he has flukes, I'm not sure. If he's still alive tomorrow I'll give him another pH adjusted freshwater bath for 2-3 min. That'll give him a couple of days between dips and maybe provide some relief.

He appears to be losing scales or skin on his sides. At least that's what it looks like to me. I don't see anything sloughing off of him, but his color and his skin definitely doesn't look right. And his fins are ragged and seem to be getting worse, so I'm going to continue with the antibiotics in the water.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok, thanks. Appreciate your input.

Perhaps he has flukes, I'm not sure. If he's still alive tomorrow I'll give him another pH adjusted freshwater bath for 2-3 min. That'll give him a couple of days between dips and maybe provide some relief.

He appears to be losing scales or skin on his sides. At least that's what it looks like to me. I don't see anything sloughing off of him, but his color and his skin definitely doesn't look right. And his fins are ragged and seem to be getting worse, so I'm going to continue with the antibiotics in the water.

losing skin may be from itching or scratching. Keep in mind 5 minute dips can stress a fish greatly especially if breathing heavily

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi everyone,

Looking for a little help with a disease identification. I’ve had this 5 inch Emperor in my 240 FOWLR for the last 6 months. I came back from a vacation and he was sitting listless in a corner, breathing hard.

He’s already been through a 1 month QT with therapeutic Copper Power. He spent another 3 weeks in an acclimation box once I put him in my display, and has done well until recently. Always ate well, no breathing problems, etc. He would get chased and nipped by an Annularis Angel on occasion.

I immediately removed him from the display, gave him a 2 min pH adjusted freshwater dip, and put him back in my QT tank. I started treatment with both Kanaplex and Metroplex. I figured the fish was a goner but he’s still alive after 24 hours But he’s not eating, he’s still breathing hard and he’s just laying on the bottom or in my plastic flower pots (for cover).

I see no evidence of Crypt or Velvet (no spots despite how the photo may look, no flashing, no scratching, etc). Does this look like a bad bacterial infection? Any treatment protocols I haven’t thought of? Thanks in advance.

Emperors get these spots when they develop parasitic infections. Most commonly, ich or neobenedenia flukes. Neither of those cause heavy scratching.

Did you see anything drop off after the dip?