Any mature Royal Gramma's with Vibrant Color Intact?

[Razorbacks]

I was in my LFS the other day taking a close look at some fresh royal grammas they had for sale and I was just blown away by the coloration compared to mine that's been in my tank about 9 months. I realize colors can fade on many fish over time, but I'm shocked how stark the difference is in a relatively short time frame. It’s not just the vibrancy of the two separate colors, but specifically the middle area where the color transitions. It really sparkled on the fresh ones. After doing some reading, I understand this is a well-known phenomenon. Live aquaria writes that:

“One of the biggest drawbacks in keeping this resplendent fish is that its color often fades in captivity. The gramma may still be attractive even after this chromatic change, but the captive coloration is often only a shadow of its former brilliance. This is probably the result of dietary deficiency, but bright lighting and low dissolved oxygen levels are also a possible cause. The grammas will eat a variety of flake, frozen and fresh foods; the more varied the diet the less rapid or less likely color loss will occur.”

This is my favorite fish in my tank and one of the reasons I got a tank, so I’m keenly interested in understanding if this change is inevitable and/or reversable. These are one of the most common and popular fish so I’m kind of surprised the exact nutrient deficiency isn’t understood yet (assuming nutrients are the primary culprit). In the lack of actual studies or concrete evidence, I was hoping to just get more firsthand accounts from other royal gramma owners. My questions are:

1. Does anyone own an adult royal gramma that you feel looks the same as a newly caught one? If so what are you feeding?
2. Does anyone have experience making a dietary change (or other change) that you feel brought back lost coloration in a royal gramma?

 

[1112-425XL]

I've had mine over a year and I think it looks as good or better than when I got it. I feed the tank once a day. Pellets one day, frozen mix the next. (Mysis shrimp, krill, marine algae, brine shrimp, etc.)

 

[SAY]

bump

 

[Razorbacks]

Thanks for the bump. The most similar thread I've found on the topic is from Reef Central in 2010. A few forum members claimed their gramma colors were just as intense as day one. Though I would suggest anyone who thinks so first go look at some brand new specimens in person and not just go off memory or online photos. Like many fish you can't really tell the full story from photos you really have to seem them in person.

One person on that post wrote "I've seen some that were fed spirulina flakes from ON and they were practically glowing"....since spirulina is well known to support fish coloration and none of my current foods have any I'm adding this in just to see what happens. Figure there's zero risk.

Do Grammas always fade? - Reef Central Online Community

Do Grammas always fade? Reef Fishes

www.reefcentral.com

 

[saltcats]

Would be interesting to see how this goes with the captive bred grammas available now as well - are they as vibrant day 1 as the wild ones? and if so what are they being fed?

 

[SAY]

Yes, i will be interested in seeing if this works. I wonder if keeping them solo vs multiple in a tank makes any difference?

 

[kevgib67]

Mine is about 2 1/2 years old, has stayed the same color.

 

[SAY]

Mine is about 2 1/2 years old, has stayed the same color.

What do you feed yours?

 

[kevgib67]

What do you feed yours?

I’m big on diversity to try and meet all of the nutritional needs. At night I alternate mysis, brine and LRS fish frenzy. In the morning I alternate TDO ChromaBoost pellets, flake and Reef Jerky.

 

[IrezumiHurts]

I have 2 that are 2 years old. Sorry for the dirty glass its hard to tell but they are quite vibrant. Anyways with a proper diet you shouldn't be concerned.

I use DKI pellets, which contain no wheat or land products (yeah, check your labels) for their base nutrition. I also feed myself (edit: mysis lol). However I don't feel either of these actually do much for pigment.

I also feed TDO pellets, which I believe aids color. They are bright red. Pigments are important! I lost a pistol shrimp once in a refugium, it lived on nothing but mostly algae somehow. When I found it months later, it was no longer just red and white, but bright green as well!

 

[luis angel]

Mine has been with me for about 7 months and a friend of mine had it before, so far the color is the same. I feed the fish quite varied, one day brine shrimp, another day pellets and another day flakes and so I take turns.

 

[Razorbacks]

I have 2 that are 2 years old. Sorry for the dirty glass its hard to tell but they are quite vibrant. Anyways with a proper diet you shouldn't be concerned.

I use DKI pellets, which contain no wheat or land products (yeah, check your labels) for their base nutrition. I also feed myself (edit: mysis lol). However I don't feel either of these actually do much for pigment.

I also feed TDO pellets, which I believe aids color. They are bright red. Pigments are important! I lost a pistol shrimp once in a refugium, it lived on nothing but mostly algae somehow. When I found it months later, it was no longer just red and white, but bright green as well!

Yeah those look great!

 

[Razorbacks]

Could just be my poor eyes but a few people who have posted photos sort of look like gramma brasiliensis vs gramma loreto. Wonder if they potentially retain color better.

 

[DCR]

Most of the pictures posted on this thread do not show the deep rich royal purple and gold color that grammas have when they first arrive in the LFS. Maybe it is just the lighting, but most look faded to me. Everyone immediately jumps to diet, but I would not underestimate the effect light intensity and spectrum of the sun compared to our tanks as a possible explanation. I have generally found that high intensity lighting improves the color of the fish.

 

[luis angel]

Most of the pictures posted on this thread do not show the deep rich royal purple and gold color that grammas have when they first arrive in the LFS. Maybe it is just the lighting, but most look faded to me. Everyone immediately jumps to diet, but I would not underestimate the effect light intensity and spectrum of the sun compared to our tanks as a possible explanation. I have generally found that high intensity lighting improves the color of the fish.

Any picture?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Got this guy in 2014 -- still have it, but this photo is from 2021 (I could take a fresh photo, but he looks the same). So, this is after 7 years in captivity. WC, from one of those Florida diver-direct operations. Eats my standard frozen mix (brine, mysis, cyclopods, calanus, with a squirt of Selcon) and Ken's color flakes.

 

[DCR]

The picture in this link would be about the closest to what I have seen when they first come in. The purple is much darker than what you typically see after a few weeks or months in a tank.

https://fantaseaaquariums.com/fishes-care/royal-gramma-care/

 

[Nick711]

I have a captive bred brasiliensis (ORA) and colors are very vibrant. Do not have a recent photo, but feed a wide variety of food, rotated daily. 1) ON Prime Reef 2) ON Clams 3) Hikari Mysis 4) Hikari Spirulina Brine 5) Hikari Krill 6) TDO pellets

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Everyone immediately jumps to diet, but I would not underestimate the effect light intensity and spectrum of the sun compared to our tanks as a possible explanation.

Yeah, the role of lighting on coloration/health hasn't been well studied yet, but it definitely plays a role, and so do a few other things:

Yeah, some things that can impact a fish's coloration (leaving a few irrelevant factors out of the conversation):
-Light (wavelength, intensity, and duration)
-Health
-Diet (including both vitamins, minerals, etc. and pigments like astaxanthin in a fish's diet)
-Various chemicals and hormones
-Genetics

For an example of the difference pigments in a fish's diet can make:
https://nhrec.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/vdocuments.net_clownfish-astaxanthin-study-reed-mariculture-astaxanthin-level-average-preference.pdf For an example of the difference that lighting can make:

Does Lighting Affect Your Fish

About 4 months ago I got 3 Captive Bred Goldflake Angels from Bali Aquarich. In the acclimation bucket one was slightly bigger than the other 2 and started kicking butt. So I tossed him into one of the outdoor frag tanks. The other 2 went into the 750g display tank. One that went into the 750...

www.reef2reef.com

For a deeper discussion on diet and coloration:

Foods with astaxanthin enhance (i.e. deepen) red/orange/pink coloration, and foods with spirulina in them are supposed to enhance blue/green colors (and according to one company in Japan, yellow too).

For an idea of some of the other things that have been/can potentially be used to improve coloration (use cautiously - too much of a lot of these can cause problems):

Color Enhancers - SimplyDiscus

Always looking for an edge. In my studies of what is currently used to enhance color I dug deeper into Spirulina. If u want to see a movie on how it is made here ya go. Also look to the side for more links about it as well. http://www.spirulinasource.com/movies.html BTW. Here is my current list...

forum.simplydiscus.com

 

[Razorbacks]

The picture in this link would be about the closest to what I have seen when they first come in. The purple is much darker than what you typically see after a few weeks or months in a tank.

https://fantaseaaquariums.com/fishes-care/royal-gramma-care/

I agree with you. Many of the photos posted don't really show what I mean. They look like typical captive specimens not newly caught ones. That is an excellent photo of what I mean though I still say you can't really capture it fully in a picture.

There are other fish like this where cameras don't seem to capture the color fully. Springeri damsels and pink spot watchman are a few others that come to mind. Neither really photograph that well in my opinion but sparkle in person.