Black Powder tang SOS

[aFishyDude]

Hey R2R people
soooo....got myself a fish ive been looking for for ages 3 days ago,a shiny black powder tang!

the tank is 100G,water parameters are all fine,inculding mg and ca.

he was kinda thin at the LFS,but was very active,swam right up to my finger when i put it in the water and was eating frozen misis really well,aswell as really interested in dry pellets,tho he was spitting them out.
i made the mistake of placing him in the tang straight away...due to not wanting him to catch something the angels in my QT might have.

on the first day,he was a happy tang.swimming from side to side in the tank,eating very well,first fish to come to the glass when i got near the tank.

on the second day,he got really shy,he started hanging out in front of a wavemaker all day long,lost his color.
later on that day ive brought in a cleaner shrimp (tank used to be FOLR,treated with copper many times,so i wasnt sure he'll live,but he does)
and the tang swam to him almost instantly,and is hanging out near him ever since.

on the third day,ive given him a FW dip for 10 minutes,it seemed to help him alot,he got much of his color back,however,no appetite still.

its now fourth day morning,he is still hanging by the cleaner shrimp,and now seems to be going back and fourth between him and the powderhead.

now i have moved him to the QT tank now,where theres copper,antibiotic and spesific gravity is 0.014.
the QT is 30 gallons.

i'd really love to save the poor guy,any tips would be welcome

food ive tried offering:
Nori on a rock.
Vitalis grazing wheel
omega one red and brown algae sheets
vitalis marine pellets/
sera gvg marine finniky feeder flakes

 

[Maritimer]

The shyness and hanging out in front of the wavemaker all day sound suspiciously like symptoms of marine velvet, which is rather prevalent these days - here's a detailed rundown by Humblefish:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

You'll want to move quickly if this is the case.

Also, if he was eating mysis with gusto at the LFS, I'd get some mysis and offer that at home; start there, and branch out to other foods.

~Bruce

 

[ngoodermuth]

+1 sounds like velvet to me as well. It's good you have him in copper with an antibiotic, I'd stay the course there. If he needs help and seems to be struggling (the copper doesn't actually kill velvet ON the fish, so he will need to survive them long enough to drop off) you can do another freshwater dip followed by an acriflavine bath.

Also, if you have an extra airline to throw in that could help as well.

 

[melypr1985]

I agree with velvet. You'll want to remove any fish that are in the display now since velvet is now in there as well. QT everybody. Stay the course with the tang, as mentioned, and leave the display fallow for a minimum of 6 weeks to starve out the parasite.

 

[ReefPiracy]

Yeah copper everything. Not even worth it any more. Half the time you never see it on the fish(velvet, ich). Tangs show signs first and seem to go down first. I've seen fish fight off velvet for awhile but will loose the battle if you don't copper. Make sure you got the levels to the correct levels and wait. I use two of the air sponges to keep oxygen up. Fresh dip often as possible. I always do a fresh dip and toss in. Seem to be fine if you get it early. Get the levels up. And now all your tangs in the other system will get it. Copper that as well.

 

[azreeftank]

Hey R2R people
soooo....got myself a fish ive been looking for for ages 3 days ago,a shiny black powder tang!

the tank is 100G,water parameters are all fine,inculding mg and ca.

he was kinda thin at the LFS,but was very active,swam right up to my finger when i put it in the water and was eating frozen misis really well,aswell as really interested in dry pellets,tho he was spitting them out.
i made the mistake of placing him in the tang straight away...due to not wanting him to catch something the angels in my QT might have.

on the first day,he was a happy tang.swimming from side to side in the tank,eating very well,first fish to come to the glass when i got near the tank.

on the second day,he got really shy,he started hanging out in front of a wavemaker all day long,lost his color.
later on that day ive brought in a cleaner shrimp (tank used to be FOLR,treated with copper many times,so i wasnt sure he'll live,but he does)
and the tang swam to him almost instantly,and is hanging out near him ever since.

on the third day,ive given him a FW dip for 10 minutes,it seemed to help him alot,he got much of his color back,however,no appetite still.

its now fourth day morning,he is still hanging by the cleaner shrimp,and now seems to be going back and fourth between him and the powderhead.

now i have moved him to the QT tank now,where theres copper,antibiotic and spesific gravity is 0.014.
the QT is 30 gallons.

i'd really love to save the poor guy,any tips would be welcome

food ive tried offering:
Nori on a rock.
Vitalis grazing wheel
omega one red and brown algae sheets
vitalis marine pellets/
sera gvg marine finniky feeder flakes

You mention your QT Specific Gravity is .014 AND you are treating with copper? Is that correct? Why do you have the SG so low with copper?

 

[ngoodermuth]

You mention your QT Specific Gravity is .014 AND you are treating with copper? Is that correct? Why do you have the SG so low with copper?

Some people lower their SG while in QT to make it a little easier on the fish to osmoregulate, and raise the O2 content.

 

[aFishyDude]

,i strongly doubt its velvet....i have seen fish with velvet before,and none of the fish in the tank,nor the tang seem to have anything visible on them.
every other fish in the tank looks fine and dandy,the gobbies,the wrasses,the damsels and the boxfish,which are supposed to be an ick magnet like a tang,are all well.
he doesnt have anything ON him,he only lost his color,like a stressed the hell out fish would,turning grey-ish instead of being the jet black color those fish usually have....
he doesnt really scratch himself on anything,but he does have head spasms/twitches....


any ideas on what else it could be? gill parasites maybe?

 

[aykwm]

,i strongly doubt its velvet....i have seen fish with velvet before,and none of the fish in the tank,nor the tang seem to have anything visible on them.

Well I did have a velvet wipe out recently, only two tangs showed white spots, the rest were very active and eating normally, but some would flash some would scratch the other will hang by the wave maker or return flow, they end up dying and also no visible signs. Observe the behavior of the fish, no white spot does not mean there is no marine velvet, but sometimes the behavior of the fish will give it out.
Since it is hanging by the cleaner shrimp, then there is something irritating its skin and it is using the cleaning shrimp so it can help remove it or "clean it"(cleaner shrimp will not help in case of velvet as it will not eat nor remove the parasite).

Also gobbies, wrasses, damsels are hardy fish with thick coat and they are rarely show any symptoms. My marine velvet slipped through a flasher wrasse which survived the wipeout and never showed any symptoms, along with a goby and dart fish. Probably the mucous cocoon the wrasse creates around it at night helps it avoid the parasites.

If you want to check for gills fluke you can do FW dip, if you see any worms then its fluke, if you didn't you provided some relief for the fish in case it was velvet, so its a win win.

 

[Maritimer]

Excellent point, Aykwm...

I've spotted velvet more often (not that I've seen it _all_that_ often, but...) by behaviour than by looking for white speckles. If you're seeing white spots on the fish's skin, the infection is probably pretty well advanced.

~Bruce

 

[azreeftank]

Some people lower their SG while in QT to make it a little easier on the fish to osmoregulate, and raise the O2 content.

Yes I know the lower SG helps with O2 but adding copper to a Hypo type treatment or lower SG is not recommended. Not too many fish will survive that stress. I would suggest going worth copper and adding airline and keeping salt level normal anytime you add copper. Just my thought

 

[aFishyDude]

Well.... I'm sad to say that he behaves like afish that's not going to make it ....i know it's not over while he's alive But he's not really swimming in the qt...sometimes leaning on his side...
His color does seem to be back, so i guess he's less stressed than in the main tank... No scratching or anything, just hanging out near the bottom

 

[aykwm]

Is it still breathing fast or at normal rate? I would suggest adding an air stone if you haven't done already, since velvet attacks the gills and suffocate the fish (hence flowing through the current)

 

[aFishyDude]

Ibdid add an airstone to the qt.
Will do an 80% water change tomorrow and redose all meds.


A thing i didn't note is that he shares the qt with a large annularis angel and coral beauty angel, both of which are recovering pretty well from a bacterial infection,none of which are eating yet Tho.... No agression observed

 

[aykwm]

Its a big No No to add several fish with different diseases in the same qt. Now you will need to keep the angels in there to monitor for possible velvet infection. Highly doubt they will get infected since copper is already present, but you don't want to risk it.

 

[4FordFamily]

Keep the course with copper. Keep up the good work, keep water quality great and hope for the best. As said, stay the course.

This is definitely velvet.

 

[aykwm]

Also forgot to mention, since it is velvet, you will need to treat all the fish in the tank, velvet is very contagious and fast.

 

[4FordFamily]

Also forgot to mention, since it is velvet, you will need to treat all the fish in the tank, velvet is very contagious and fast.

Yes good point^

 

[aFishyDude]

Sigh, that was Such a bad gamble on my account.... I mean the guy was literally eating out of my hand at the lfs and looked so good...what could possibly go wrong?
Eh, f**k me.
Yeah i know mixing diseases up isn't great but getting him out of the display tank was priority ..and copper is pretty good at dealing with velvet if that's what it is.... Gonna hold off on nuking the main tank with copper unless any other fish show any signs of anything...

 

[aFishyDude]

update: its not velvet.
the fish wont make it,he's already laying down on his side and is getting nearly blown away by the current....but atleast i have a better guess at what killed him,i cant see little worm-ish/flea-ish things coming out of him,moving on him...any clue on what they might be? they are so tiny a photo is impossible