Help needed for Bean Overflow

[mikebusc]

So I've been using the Bean Animal overflow similar to this one (Thanks BeanAnimal!). It works great except for when I have to shut my return pump off and then back on. When I do there's too much flow coming through the secondary pipe (the middle one) and I usually need to open the gate valve of the primary all the way untill it flows freely and then dial it back down till there's the normal trickle in the secondary. My idea is that maybe the heights of the standpipes need adjustment but I'm not sure how to correct it. Maybe the primary is too close to the bottom? It's just hard to get behind so I'd rather get some good info from this forum rather then trying to squeeze behind the tank with trial and error.
(And I know this may not be a "true" BeanAnimal from what I've read somewhere)

 

[KStatefan]

The primary need to be separated from the secondary

 

[mikebusc]

Yes I have them separated

 

[mikebusc]

I'm thinking its the pipe heights that matter but I'm not sure.

 

[Fish Fan]

This sounds like it would be a potential problem if you lost power, and then it was restored, while you were away from your tank.

@BeanAnimal - Would you be able to help here please?

 

[mikebusc]

This sounds like it would be a potential problem if you lost power, and then it was restored, while you were away from your tank.

@BeanAnimal - Would you be able to help here please?

It's really not too much of a problem, just an annoyance. I mean I've lived with it all this time but now I'm ready to do something about it. When power comes back on it's just that most of the water goes down the secondary until I tweak it.

And just for clarification the primary drain opening is very close to the bottom of the overflow box.

 

[Reefering1]

Sounds like you need to raise the secondary stand pipe high enough that the primary can achieve full siphon before the water flows down the secondary... I assume the drains are very loud while this is happening?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

@mikebusc
It seems that diagram isn't an exact rendering of your set up.

1st thing to clarify, in the diagram the full siphon and open connect at the bottom. Is this how yours is set up?

with your issue, it sounds like you can't raise your open higher, and if thats the case, the only thing you can do is raise the pipe (full siphon) that terminates under the water (in the sump) so that the pressure required to get the full siphon is overcome and starts before it begins to drain out the open.

The lower that pipe is under water, the more pressure is required to get the water to flow.

 

[mikebusc]

Sounds like you need to raise the secondary stand pipe high enough that the primary can achieve full siphon before the water flows down the secondary... I assume the drains are very loud while this is happening?

Not very loud but noticeable. I think the second one is good deal higher than the first. But I do think the first is very close to the bottom of the overflow box so maybe it’s just harder to get that full siphon going. Like maybe 1/2”. I’ll try to raise that some as well as the 2nd. It’s just that there’s not a lot of room to play in there.

 

[mikebusc]

@mikebusc
It seems that diagram isn't an exact rendering of your set up.

1st thing to clarify, in the diagram the full siphon and open connect at the bottom. Is this how yours is set up?

with your issue, it sounds like you can't raise your open higher, and if thats the case, the only thing you can do is raise the pipe (full siphon) that terminates under the water (in the sump) so that the pressure required to get the full siphon is overcome and starts before it begins to drain out the open.

The lower that pipe is under water, the more pressure is required to get the water to flow.

I think the diagram is pretty close to what I have unless there’s something you think I’m missing. When you say the full open and siphon connect in the diagram, they do not in mine. It was explained to me when I was building from that diagram that the open wasn’t connected it was just behind the first one which you can’t tell from the pic.
So I do have it separated. If I understand from what you’re saying I should raise the primary higher than the secondary? Now that I’ve looked at it the primary is lower in the water. I guess that’s my problem. It all makes perfect physics sense now. I’ll will make the changes this week and then give it a test.

 

[X-37B]

I do not use fittings on mine.
Main is just the bulkhead no pipe.
Secondary and emergency are a straight pipe.

 

[ScottD]

Mike,
The primary drain with the gate valve should be the lowest in the overflow. The secondary pipe should be the next highest and then the third drain the tallest. I also noticed that you have 1” bulkheads and stand pipes but 1-1/4” pipe going from the bulkheads to the sump. That is part of your problem. It takes a lot more water to fill up the 1-1/4” pipe to create the full siphon. Also the pipe when it goes into the sump should be very minimal sticking below the waterline. If they are as shown, they are too far below the waterline and creates back pressure further inhibiting your primary getting to full siphon. The first things I’d try is cutting your pipe so it’s 1/2” to 1” below the water line of your sump. I would also extend your secondary drain so that it’s just below where the operating water level of your tank is to give you the most water to get your siphon back before it starts going down the secondary. I would then extend your third drain 1/2” above your secondary pipe as long as that’s not above the rim of your tank. If none of that works then you need to change out your 1-1/4” pipe to 1” pipe. Which I might do anyways since it will never allow your second and third drains to get to a full siphon in case of emergency.

 

[mikebusc]

Mike,
The primary drain with the gate valve should be the lowest in the overflow. The secondary pipe should be the next highest and then the third drain the tallest. I also noticed that you have 1” bulkheads and stand pipes but 1-1/4” pipe going from the bulkheads to the sump. That is part of your problem. It takes a lot more water to fill up the 1-1/4” pipe to create the full siphon. Also the pipe when it goes into the sump should be very minimal sticking below the waterline. If they are as shown, they are too far below the waterline and creates back pressure further inhibiting your primary getting to full siphon. The first things I’d try is cutting your pipe so it’s 1/2” to 1” below the water line of your sump. I would also extend your secondary drain so that it’s just below where the operating water level of your tank is to give you the most water to get your siphon back before it starts going down the secondary. I would then extend your third drain 1/2” above your secondary pipe as long as that’s not above the rim of your tank. If none of that works then you need to change out your 1-1/4” pipe to 1” pipe. Which I might do anyways since it will never allow your second and third drains to get to a full siphon in case of emergency.

Thanks for the info. I will change the pipe heights as you mentioned. As far as my pipe sizes, they are all 1”. That diagram is just representative, not my actual set up.

 

[ScottD]

Ah ok, that’s good the pipes don’t change diameter. You haven’t mentioned how far the pipes stick below the water level in your sump. That could be the issue, especially if your sump fills up more as the water drains into the sump when the return pump is turned off. How much does the water level change in your sump when you turn off your pump?

 

[mikebusc]

So they are sticking down pretty far into the sump. I think like possibly 4 inches. And the water rises in the sump probably another 3 inches or so whenever power is cut. But they are definitely further into the water than the secondary. The secondary is probably only about an inch or two.

 

[ScottD]

So they are sticking down pretty far into the sump. I think like possibly 4 inches. And the water rises in the sump probably another 3 inches or so whenever power is cut. But they are definitely further into the water than the secondary. The secondary is probably only about an inch or two.

So I would start there. Make your primary drain 1/2” below the waterline. It’s fighting a lot of back pressure, affecting the siphon. And then take a look at the height difference between your primary and secondary drains. Ideally you want the secondary to be around 1” below the operating level of your tank. That way water flows into the over flow still but doesn’t have far to cascade down, keeping it quieter. The third pipe would be higher than the second pipe as little as 1/4” to just slightly under the rim of your tank. Its purpose is a fail safe incase something happens to both your other pipes.

 

[mikebusc]

I actually put the third pipe about three or 4 inches above the water line. I was told in case the emergency drain is ever used. You would definitely hear it.
But either way it won’t really matter much.

 

[ScottD]

I actually put the third pipe about three or 4 inches above the water line. I was told in case the emergency drain is ever used. You would definitely hear it.
But either way it won’t really matter much.

My last post the heights was in regards to the top of pipes, not bottom. The only thing that was at the sump level was your primary drain sticking 1/2” below the sump waterline.

I agree about having the emergency being up higher at the bottom for that purpose, to alert you of an issue.

 

[mikebusc]

Gotcha. Thanks for all the help!

 

[ScottD]

Gotcha. Thanks for all the help!

You’re welcome, anytime. Hoping you get it fixed easily.