Help please, identify disease

[zaphod42]

Is this Brooklynella? or something else? Thank you for any assistance!

 

[Stephen8169301]

@vetteguy53081

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is this Brooklynella? or something else? Thank you for any assistance!

Pic on bottom is hazy but from looking at both appears to be brooklynella. I first suspected flukes but other pic points to brook. The dots appear as secondary infections which stem from brook. The thing lacking however is the amount
of slime on its body. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials
Before taking these steps, can you provide a couple more close up like the top pic? The cloudy eyes can be fluke or bacterial infection

 

[zaphod42]

I did an H2O2 bath last night and am hoping formulin will arrive tomorrow.
I bought a tank and put water in it today to start a quarantine tank to put her(?) in after the formulin arrives.
I don't see slime on the body, but 2 patches of white on one side.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I did an H2O2 bath last night and am hoping formulin will arrive tomorrow.
I bought a tank and put water in it today to start a quarantine tank to put her(?) in after the formulin arrives.
I don't see slime on the body, but 2 patches of white on one side.

Thanks for pic. Looking at closer image and eyes- Appears to be a bacterial issue and best treatment will be Seachem kanaplex which is a broad spectrum antibiotic and will treat both fins and eyes

 

[zaphod42]

Pic on bottom is hazy but from looking at both appears to be brooklynella. I first suspected flukes but other pic points to brook. The dots appear as secondary infections which stem from brook. The thing lacking however is the amount
of slime on its body. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials
Before taking these steps, can you provide a couple more close up like the top pic? The cloudy eyes can be fluke or bacterial infection

Thanks for pic. Looking at closer image and eyes- Appears to be a bacterial issue and best treatment will be Seachem kanaplex which is a broad spectrum antibiotic and will treat both fins and eyes

Thank you for your expertise. I really can't seem to get a good picture, but there are 2 white patches on one side in the black areas behind the first white stripe at about the eye level and behind the second white stripe about 40% of the way up. In this photo, I think you can kind of see one of the patches.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a video? A good portion of diagnosing Brook is seeing how the fish is swimming.

More history of the fish gives a more complete picture - water quality, how long you’ve had it, other fish it is in with, etc.

Jay

 

[zaphod42]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a video? A good portion of diagnosing Brook is seeing how the fish is swimming.

More history of the fish gives a more complete picture - water quality, how long you’ve had it, other fish it is in with, etc.

Jay

I will try to get a video. The fish swims normally since the H2O2 bath yesterday, before that it was listing and breathing harder than normal.
These are the first fish in the tank. We've had it for 9 days with one other, smaller clown, that we got together. The other clown has no symptoms. This one arrived with 1 cloudy eye, then there were white patches (not dots), then the other eye got cloudy.
40g breeder tank set up a month ago with dry rock, dry sand and bottle bacteria.
Total ammonia 0.25, nitrite 1, nitrate 30, temp 78

 

[zaphod42]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a video? A good portion of diagnosing Brook is seeing how the fish is swimming.

More history of the fish gives a more complete picture - water quality, how long you’ve had it, other fish it is in with, etc.

Jay

Sorry it's so blurry

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry it's so blurry

Well, I don't see any clear evidence of Brooklynella, HOWEVER, the fish improving after a peroxide dip does indicate something was improved. Can you repeat that process, just to see if you can buy more time?

Jay

 

[zaphod42]

Well, I don't see any clear evidence of Brooklynella, HOWEVER, the fish improving after a peroxide dip does indicate something was improved. Can you repeat that process, just to see if you can buy more time?

Jay

Would a second peroxide dip be better/worse/the same as a formalin dip?
I have metroplex now, but am still waiting on kanaplex: it could be 1 to 4 days.
Should I start metroplex while waiting for kanaplex?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Metroplex is really over rated as a medication except orally for some internal protozoans. I don’t use it as a bath.
I think a second peroxide dip is warranted because it seemed to improve the fish the first time. Formalin dips can be more stressful if not done properly. If you are treating Brook, formalin should be dosed in the treatment tank as a static bath.
Jay

 

[zaphod42]

Metroplex is really over rated as a medication except orally for some internal protozoans. I don’t use it as a bath.
I think a second peroxide dip is warranted because it seemed to improve the fish the first time. Formalin dips can be more stressful if not done properly. If you are treating Brook, formalin should be dosed in the treatment tank as a static bath.
Jay

We did a 45 minute formalin bath yesterday for both clowns, while waiting for your reply, in the hopes that doing something would be better than doing nothing. Then we put them both in the QT that we had set up the day before. They both seemed to tolerate it well.
She really hasn't been eating for several days, and started listing again today (a behavior not seen since before the hydrogen peroxide bath on March 22). We did a hydrogen peroxide bath today, with no noticeable improvement in her behavior.
We will not do any metroplex, and are waiting on the kanaplex, which is expected on Monday. I think it will arrive too late to make a difference, but I will continue to update in case anyone else is interested in following this journey.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

We did a 45 minute formalin bath yesterday for both clowns, while waiting for your reply, in the hopes that doing something would be better than doing nothing. Then we put them both in the QT that we had set up the day before. They both seemed to tolerate it well.
She really hasn't been eating for several days, and started listing again today (a behavior not seen since before the hydrogen peroxide bath on March 22). We did a hydrogen peroxide bath today, with no noticeable improvement in her behavior.
We will not do any metroplex, and are waiting on the kanaplex, which is expected on Monday. I think it will arrive too late to make a difference, but I will continue to update in case anyone else is interested in following this journey.

Do you have the actual concentration you used for the formalin and peroxide dips? Also, the dip time.
Jay

 

[zaphod42]

Do you have the actual concentration you used for the formalin and peroxide dips? Also, the dip time.
Jay

We did a 5 minute freshwater bath: distilled water at 78°F, in the AM on March 22.
We did a 30 minute hydrogen peroxide bath, 5 ml of 3% in 1 liter of display tank water, in the PM on March 22.
We did a 45 minute formalin bath, 0.6 ml of 37% in 1 gallon of display tank water with an air stone, on March 24, with both clownfish.
Move both to quarantine tank directly from formalin bath.
Repeat hydrogen peroxide bath, 30 minutes with 5 ml of 3% in 1 liter of quarantine tank water, on March 25.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

We did a 5 minute freshwater bath: distilled water at 78°F, in the AM on March 22.
We did a 30 minute hydrogen peroxide bath, 5 ml of 3% in 1 liter of display tank water, in the PM on March 22.
We did a 45 minute formalin bath, 0.6 ml of 37% in 1 gallon of display tank water with an air stone, on March 24, with both clownfish.
Move both to quarantine tank directly from formalin bath.
Repeat hydrogen peroxide bath, 30 minutes with 5 ml of 3% in 1 liter of quarantine tank water, on March 25.

Thanks, I just wanted to confirm the time and dose, those were all in order.
Jay

 

[zaphod42]

Thanks, I just wanted to confirm the time and dose, those were all in order.
Jay

Today she has improved and is really eating for the first time in about 5 days. She is listing much less, and often not at all.
Kanaplex will arrive tomorrow.
We are cautiously optimistic.

 

[zaphod42]

Thanks, I just wanted to confirm the time and dose, those were all in order.
Jay

Clown continues to improve. Kanaplex arrived today and we decided to use it even though she seems to be fighting it on her own. We will do two more doses: on day 3 & day 5 and evaluate then.
My current question though, is should we do anything to the display tank? I have some Ruby Reef Rally Pro arriving tomorrow, as I was ordering anything that I thought might help that would get here fastest. Should I use that, or get a UV sterilizer, or do something else, or do nothing?
The display tank is only about 5 weeks old and has no other fish, corals or invertebrates, beyond the 2 clowns that are currently in QT.
Thanks again for your expertise and advice.

 

[zaphod42]

@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081
Ruby Reef Rally Pro has arrived.
Could you tell me if you think that I should use it on the display tank? or if I should get a uv light? or leave it fallow for 6 weeks?
There are no other animals in the display tank.
The small clown was never symptomatic.
The large clown responded positively both times we did H2O2 baths, but not for the formalin bath.
They are both in a quarantine tank, and I dosed it once with Kanaplex yesterday, will do a second dose tomorrow and third dose on Friday.
Thank you for your opinions and help

 

[Scooters Reef]

@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081
Ruby Reef Rally Pro has arrived.
Could you tell me if you think that I should use it on the display tank? or if I should get a uv light? or leave it fallow for 6 weeks?
There are no other animals in the display tank.
The small clown was never symptomatic.
The large clown responded positively both times we did H2O2 baths, but not for the formalin bath.
They are both in a quarantine tank, and I dosed it once with Kanaplex yesterday, will do a second dose tomorrow and third dose on Friday.
Thank you for your opinions and help

If you have no other livestock in the display tank I would just leave it fallow for a period of time. I believe @vetteguy 53081 recommended 4-6 weeks. Going 75+ days should allow any possible parasites and pathogens to run their courses and die out. I believe Uronema is the only thing that will be near impossible to remove from a system, otherwise leaving the system running but without livestock should in theory starve out the parasite or pathogens targeting/hosting on your clownfish.

Wishing you lots of luck and patience. It sounds like you might have caught it just in time. Keep us updated.