How to keep a Fishless aquarium long term

[sixty_reefer]

Interested in hearing how folks that keep fishless systems doing regarding keeping the biological filter going.
Do you add nutrients via a bottle, ghost feeding, any other methods? interested in knowing what’s been working for you.

 

[Jekyl]

The biological filter can be maintained just from things in the air getting into the water. I imagine you're not just to have an empty box of water though, so any feedings will also contribute.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The biological filter can be maintained just from things in the air getting into the water. I imagine you're not just to have an empty box of water though, so any feedings will also contribute.

It is almost just a box of water really, I want to do a trial test over the period of 6 to 12 months with just two corals in the system. I wasn’t planning on feeding the only ingredient I am adding would be live rotifers.

 

[Jekyl]

It is almost just a box of water really, I want to do a trial test over the period of 6 to 12 months with just two corals in the system. I wasn’t planning on feeding the only ingredient I am adding would be live rotifers.

The coral will need some nutrients to survive. Anything you're doing to manage that will maintain the bio filter just fine. Keep in mind that a brand new tank without adding any products will still complete the cycle in about a month. Just from aerosols.

 

[Dan_P]

Interested in hearing how folks that keep fishless systems doing regarding keeping the biological filter going.
Do you add nutrients via a bottle, ghost feeding, any other methods? interested in knowing what’s been working for you.

Are you starting such an aquarium from scratch or converting an existing aquarium?

 

[Spare time]

I just fed the corals.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The coral will need some nutrients to survive. Anything you're doing to manage that will maintain the bio filter just fine. Keep in mind that a brand new tank without adding any products will still complete the cycle in about a month. Just from aerosols.

I will be attempting at keeping a carnation coral and eventually a blueberry gorgonian, the only food added will be rotifers.
The tank it’s an all in one system with media in back chambers.
I’ve not run a system fishless to date and would like some input or ideas on how to keep it fishless for at least 6 months, I’m not sure if the live rotifers will be enough to produce enough waste to keep it going.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Are you starting such an aquarium from scratch or converting an existing aquarium?

I’m starting from scratch, so far I’ve added 100% cycled water from a mates reef and a bag of cycled media from the same sump.
The rest of the tank is just bare.
The end goal is to observe if rotifers alone could aid the development of hard to keep NPS corals and observe if they will deplete certain elements in the water column through icp testing.
This is main reason I would like to keep it fishless and as bare as possible in the display.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I just fed the corals.

I’m only going to have one or two hard to keep NPS for observation, the only food I will be adding initially will be live rotifers

 

[Dan_P]

I’m starting from scratch, so far I’ve added 100% cycled water from a mates reef and a bag of cycled media from the same sump.
The rest of the tank is just bare.
The end goal is to observe if rotifers alone could aid the development of hard to keep NPS corals and observe if they will deplete certain elements in the water column through icp testing.
This is main reason I would like to keep it fishless and as bare as possible in the display.

Here’s are some thoughts.

The new system will grow algae (macro and micro) and which may deplete the system of nitrogen, phosphorous and some trace elements. As this depletion occurs, green growth will likely be replaced by golden to yellow-brown growth, for example, dinoflagellates. Who knows how the bacteria population responds to depletion. I don’t know how the addition of rotifers affects this possible algae proliferation scenario. Coral exudate will be a source of nutrients for the bacteria and algae.

With this possible background growth in mind, the ICP results might not be very meaningful because the experiment will not be controlled for algae depletion of the elements or the algae’s effect on coral growth. Could still be an interesting experiment but maybe difficult to interpret.

 

[Doctorgori]

I also want to do a fish less tank but in tandem with no ( on purpose) biological filter ever…
following along

 

[sixty_reefer]

Here’s are some thoughts.

The new system will grow algae (macro and micro) and which may deplete the system of nitrogen, phosphorous and some trace elements. As this depletion occurs, green growth will likely be replaced by golden to yellow-brown growth, for example, dinoflagellates. Who knows how the bacteria population responds to depletion. I don’t know how the addition of rotifers affects this possible algae proliferation scenario. Coral exudate will be a source of nutrients for the bacteria and algae.

With this possible background growth in mind, the ICP results might not be very meaningful because the experiment will not be controlled for algae depletion of the elements or the algae’s effect on coral growth. Could still be an interesting experiment but maybe difficult to interpret.

I have thought of that possibility, I’m planning on not having the lights on to avoid algae growth I was considering having blues at 5% a few hours a day max, the corals I’m considering for this exercise are Non photosynthetic, I’ve done some research in the past that I believe that having them in a conventional tank didn’t allow me to fully evaluate their needs properly, having a tank dedicated to observing the coral nutrients assimilation needs and feeding could bring some light in understanding how to keep them successfully in my opinion.

For now the basic idea is to have an autonomous phytoplankton culture feeding an autonomous rotifer culture assembled near the tank.
For the tank I have started with cycled water and cycled media, there won’t be any rock or sand in the display and no mechanical filtration.
The idea is to keep the rotifers in suspense in the water column until they are consumed by the coral (hopefully) no light will be added to the system although I’m considering the option of adding blues at 5% for a few hours a day. In past observations I’ve seen dendros (carnation coral) react to ammonia and nitrogen and I’d like to expand on those observations in this system but I’ve been told that the water from the rotifer culture may have high ammonia also.

The reason for my main question is that I’m not too sure a system can run efficiently with just ammonia addition long therm as some bacteria will require a source of phosphorus and carbon to keep going that usually comes from the fish waste and food that this system won’t have.
Unless if NPS corals do create waste, something I’m not aware just yet.

 

[Dan_P]

I also want to do a fish less tank but in tandem with no ( on purpose) biological filter ever…
following along

“No biological filter” might be impossible to achieve. Bacteria and algae will get into the system and create one. Even your saltwater storage bucket likely has developed a huge amount of bacteria, a biological filter, both suspended in the water and the biofilm on the surfaces.

The coral exudate and coral food will feed this filter. I am thinking the system will be nutrient depleted rather quickly unless you feed it, although a substantial amount of food will be consumed by the biological filter.

This could be an interesting experiment.

 

[rhitee93]

There is someone on here who rather bluntly claims that all of us are fools for not populating our systems with coral before adding fish in an effort to keep disease out of the system. Maybe they have an answer for this.

 

[GARRIGA]

Perhaps having more corals and feeding them phyto more often with a very large CUC and lots of elbow grease to keep uglies at bay. No actual experience but something needs to keep everything in balance and on a reef absence of fish seems to always lead to an invasion of algae. Guess one can say that’s all the experience needed to observe.

 

[blecki]

I also want to do a fish less tank but in tandem with no ( on purpose) biological filter ever…
following along

I also don't think this is possible.

There is someone on here who rather bluntly claims that all of us are fools for not populating our systems with coral before adding fish in an effort to keep disease out of the system.

Wonder if there is some correlation between a tank being packed full of coral and a tank being disease free... personally I think it helps (ich and velvet trophonts are certainly not immune to being eaten) but think microfauna play a bigger role. Anyway it's impossible to measure because "packed full of coral" and "healthy fish" both also correlate with time and experience.

Unless if NPS corals do create waste, something I’m not aware just yet.

They do but you know, in proportion to the food going in...

So you are not feeding terribly much - so you will not have much waste - therefore you do not need much of a biological filter. You don't need to worry about 'keeping it going'. The bacteria population will regulate to fit your tiny bio load.

Seems like a lot of worry over nothing. Your bigger concern is that you have no grazers around to clean up algae growth, and that you will need to supplement the coral's diet because they won't have fish waste in the water column.

 

[Spare time]

I’m only going to have one or two hard to keep NPS for observation, the only food I will be adding initially will be live rotifers

I mixed vitachem marine and reef enhance for my coral only tank.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Perhaps having more corals and feeding them phyto more often with a very large CUC and lots of elbow grease to keep uglies at bay. No actual experience but something needs to keep everything in balance and on a reef absence of fish seems to always lead to an invasion of algae. Guess one can say that’s all the experience needed to observe.

I’m not having a light on, that should help keeping the ugly stuff away hopefully

 

[sixty_reefer]

I mixed vitachem marine and reef enhance for my coral only tank.

Will look at those and see what they could bring to the party

 

[sixty_reefer]

I also don't think this is possible.


Wonder if there is some correlation between a tank being packed full of coral and a tank being disease free... personally I think it helps (ich and velvet trophonts are certainly not immune to being eaten) but think microfauna play a bigger role. Anyway it's impossible to measure because "packed full of coral" and "healthy fish" both also correlate with time and experience.


They do but you know, in proportion to the food going in...

So you are not feeding terribly much - so you will not have much waste - therefore you do not need much of a biological filter. You don't need to worry about 'keeping it going'. The bacteria population will regulate to fit your tiny bio load.

Seems like a lot of worry over nothing. Your bigger concern is that you have no grazers around to clean up algae growth, and that you will need to supplement the coral's diet because they won't have fish waste in the water column.

It could be nothing although I like to try and prevent situations that I may not have thought off, there won’t be light, this should reduce the risk with photosynthetic nuisance to appear.