Is my cycle stuck?

[kitti-fish]

Tank is only 6 days old and this is only my second time cycling a saltwater so I’m still a newbie in my eyes..I used Dr Tim’s Ammonia coupled with MicroBacter Starter XLM as well as a live rock from my smaller tank and biomedia in my canister. It promises to cycle a tank within a week but I’m starting to doubt it. I added ammonia accordingly to read 2ppm. However, it’s been stuck at 1ppm for the past 3 days. That being said, I know API test are not the best but I also tested my mature nano tank and the readings were correct (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate). I added a bit more microbacter as I thought maybe there isn’t enough. Should I continue to wait it out? Should I dose a bit more ammonia to reach 2 ppm again? Testing from my larger tank.

 

[brandon429]

thousands of running reefs show that level of ammonia on api, it causes mass confusion when viewed through the lens of old cycling science.

No it’s not stuck

Let’s see the tank pic, to see how much skip cycle live rock you used

The nitrate and nitrite isn’t factored any longer in cycling unless we use the old rules

Only ammonia matters, you’ve used bottle bac and skip cycle live rock. The color looks like most api readings (the old rules said to expect zero, that’s wrong, we expect api to report low degrees of ammonia in running cycled reefs) per updated rules this doesn’t look stalled. Post tank pic so we can see % and placement of live rock


You’re about to be told Dr Tim’s is slow bacteria, it’s not. Thought I’d hop in first, it’s the most used cycle bac in the world and nobody on this site has an example of it failing to carry fish as it’s designed to do.

 

[kitti-fish]

thousands of years running reefs show that level of ammonia on api

No it’s not stuck

Let’s see the tank pic, to see how much skip cycle live rock you used

I’ll be honest I doubt it was enough. Out of the 4, the one of the farthest right is the live rock. I was unable to place a second live rock as it had coral attached to it. There is a good bit of biomedia in my canister chamber but not sure if a tray of it would be enough.

 

[Polymate3D]

API tests be API tests. Eg, almost a waste of time unfortunately, and that comes from someone who did the exact same thing!

Salifert for the other 3 and ammonia use a Ammonia alert. You can the. Visually see where it is at.

I suspect your past the 1st stage.

- Paul

 

[brandon429]

Not stuck for sure. Your tank is like the other 200 here in every way, we have a forty page thread dealing with just this kind of setup:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Updated Cycling Science in Action This is a testless reef tank cycling thread, the only one from any board. If you ever had trouble with reef tank cycling in the past, you won't any longer after working some jobs with us. chances are you are using/about to use a method of reef tank cycling...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[kitti-fish]

Not stuck for sure. Your tank is like the other 200 here in every way, we have a forty page thread dealing with just this kind of setup:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Updated Cycling Science in Action This is a testless reef tank cycling thread, the only one from any board. If you ever had trouble with reef tank cycling in the past, you won't any longer after working some jobs with us. chances are you are using/about to use a method of reef tank cycling...

www.reef2reef.com

I’ve read some of them and some say dose more ammonia till it reached 0.25 or lower but I don’t know if that’s the right course of action. This is why I posted it the beginner thread as I do appreciate veterans to guide me in the right direction. Because API is not the most trustworthy I want a second opinion. I’m definitely going to be investing Hanna checkers but as of now I appreciate advice.

 

[kitti-fish]

API tests be API tests. Eg, almost a waste of time unfortunately, and that comes from someone who did the exact same thing!

Salifert for the other 3 and ammonia use a Ammonia alert. You can the. Visually see where it is at.

I suspect your past the 1st stage.

- Paul

Thank you Paul I will also look into those test kits. This was just what was on hand atm. I won’t be buying API once this is all used up.

 

[brandon429]

Readers might wonder if the goal of testless cycling in that thread is to rush every reefer into fast as possible fish stocking, because cycles are so easy to pinpoint with the new rules set

It’s not the goal, even though that’s a side benefit if quick stocking is needed (such as hospital tanks, emergency upgrades etc)

The sole reason every cycle was given a specific start date, vs an open ended wait, was so the cycler knew when to cease thinking about cycling and go full bore into fish disease prevention planning: fallow, quarantine and stocking order of the reef that allows you to build it up


Your final goal is a safe ethical tank to keep fish

Though your cycle is ready to carry fish ethically, they’ll catch disease within eight months if you begin reefing without a disease plan, that’s the reason for pinpointing cycle end dates.


Applies here: time to select and implement a disease plan. Waiting longer, adding anything extra, testing anything, can’t make your tank safe for fish. Fallow, qt, and a smart stocking order does that part and no cycle umpire ever talks about what actually saves fish. We just did

Nice reef,
B


*you’re done cycling. That means don’t buy cycling test kits, begin a disease control protocol / get those from the disease forum. Literally don’t test the tank any longer for ammonia, nitrite, the cycling params because that takes your focus away from what will kill your fish by summertime (not the cycle)

If you want to test nitrate, it won’t be for cycling it’ll be for reefing matters / get a different kit for that one.

 

[kitti-fish]

Readers might wonder if the goal of testless cycling in that thread is to rush every reefer into fast as possible fish stocking, because cycles are so easy to pinpoint with the new rules set

It’s not the goal, even though that’s a side benefit if quick stocking is needed (such as hospital tanks, emergency upgrades etc)

The sole reason every cycle was given a specific start date, vs an open ended wait, was so the cycler knew when to cease thinking about cycling and go full bore into fish disease prevention planning: fallow, quarantine and stocking order of the reef that allows you to build it up


Your final goal is a safe ethical tank to keep fish

Though your cycle is ready to carry fish ethically, they’ll catch disease within eight months if you begin reefing without a disease plan, that’s the reason for pinpointing cycle end dates.


Applies here: time to select and implement a disease plan. Waiting longer, adding anything extra, testing anything, can’t make your tank safe for fish. Fallow, qt, and a smart stocking order does that part and no cycle umpire ever talks about what actually saves fish. We just did

Nice reef,
B


*you’re done cycling. That means don’t buy cycling test kits, begin a disease control protocol / get those from the disease forum. Literally don’t test the tank any longer for ammonia, nitrite, the cycling params.

If you want to test nitrate, it won’t be for cycling it’ll be for reefing matters / get a different kit for that one.

So, even if the fish I do have from my previous are disease free, they have a chance to catch disease in this new tank even if I used exact same materials/salt/water? They only fish that would be in this tank would be my two clown fish I love dearly and would months down the line stock a goby. I would like to add a pencil urchin maybe 6 months down the line. Of course, coral as well.

 

[brandon429]

It’s those additions coming later on, agreed the acclimated clowns aren’t in full risk.

This is a great first study into how diseases get sent among reefs:

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

 

[kitti-fish]

It’s those additions coming later on, agreed the acclimated ones aren’t in full risk.

This is a great first study into how diseases get sent among reefs:

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Gotcha so is it safe as of now to add the 2 clowns or should I continue to wait to add?

 

[brandon429]

If you add them they’ll live just like all the other tanks, but hidden variables such as salinity acclimation still apply. In every searchable case in reef forums, dr Tim’s cycling bac can carry a couple small fish on day one, much less after a weeks wait. There aren’t any fail examples we can link here to scare you that they won’t be fine.

Do a decent water change first then begin. For ultimate peace of mind add in two capfulls of your same bottle bac mix at the time of addition after the water change.

 

[kitti-fish]

If you add them they’ll live just like all the other tanks, but hidden variables such as salinity acclimation still apply. In every searchable case in reef forums, dr Tim’s cycling bac can carry a couple small fish on day one, much less after a weeks wait. There aren’t any fail examples we can link here to scare you that they won’t be fine.

Do a decent water change first then begin.

My salinity is around 1.25 after checking with refractometer which is the same as my nano. Temperature hovers around 78 as of now same as the nano as well. I’ll do a water change then. Thank you!

 

[brandon429]

Excellent

After 48 hours so we can see that they acted normally we can use your thread here as another work example to build patterns from, thanks for posting

 

[kitti-fish]

Excellent

After 48 hours so we can see that they acted normally we can use your thread here as another work example to build patterns from, thanks for posting

I’ll do the water change tomorrow as I have a few things to do so I’ll post an update some time next week thank you Brandon.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

your tank doesn't appear to have flow. did you turn it off during the cycle or off for the pic? you will need a power head too.

 

[kitti-fish]

your tank doesn't appear to have flow. did you turn it off during the cycle or off for the pic? you will need a power head too.

It has plenty of flow just hard to tell from the picture

 

[BeanAnimal]

thousands of running reefs show that level of ammonia on api, it causes mass confusion when viewed through the lens of old cycling science.

@kitti-fish
PSA - for you and anybody else new to this hobby and unaware of Brandon's preachings.

There is no such thing as "old cycling science" this is a term coined by Brandon to disparage people who don't agree with his rambling rhetoric, which has unfortunately becoming a steady din in these halls once again.

He simply ignores most of what people write and just rambles through his talking points like a bull in a china shop. My advice, even though broken clocks are correct twice per day -- seek a better clock

Anyway - back to the question at hand. You indicated that the same test kit shows 0 in an established tank and maybe 0.75 PPM in this tank. The test kit appears to both be fine and close enough to draw simple conclusions.

- The ammonia level you currently are seeing is not likely harmful. See Randy's thread here.

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

- The live rock you added will do its job, as will the bottled bacteria. Contrary to what Brandon says, there can certainly be a variable delay as the needed bacterial colonies populate and move from the lag phase to the exponential phase -- often in waves, based on the food source availability.

- I would be comfortable moving forward at this point, but if you want to either watch for a few more days, for any decrease as a positive indicator, or add a bit more, test and watch it drop, that is fine. See below.

- There is never harm in waiting a few more days - I would presume that you are in this for the long term, so what is a few days in context?

So, by most accounts and what we know about ammonia and nitrifying bacteria, you are fine and headed in the right direction. If you are not comfortable with that or want peace of mind, then sure test for another few days or add a bit more ammonia and see if it starts to process (I am sure it will). It just may take some time for the systems overall bacterial balance to process it "instantly".

 

[kitti-fish]

@kitti-fish
PSA - for you and anybody else new to this hobby and unaware of Brandon's preachings.

There is no such thing as "old cycling science" this is a term coined by Brandon to disparage people who don't agree with his rambling rhetoric, which has unfortunately becoming a steady din in these halls once again.

He simply ignores most of what people write and just rambles through his talking points like a bull in a china shop. My advice, even though broken clocks are correct twice per day -- seek a better clock

Anyway - back to the question at hand. You indicated that the same test kit shows 0 in an established tank and maybe 0.75 PPM in this tank. The test kit appears to both be fine and close enough to draw simple conclusions.

- The ammonia level you currently are seeing is not likely harmful. See Randy's thread here.

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

- The live rock you added will do its job, as will the bottled bacteria. Contrary to what Brandon says, there can certainly be a variable delay as the needed bacterial colonies populate and move from the lag phase to the exponential phase -- often in waves, based on the food source availability.

- I would be comfortable moving forward at this point, but if you want to either watch for a few more days, for any decrease as a positive indicator, or add a bit more, test and watch it drop, that is fine. See below.

- There is never harm in waiting a few more days - I would presume that you are in this for the long term, so what is a few days in context?

So, by most accounts and what we know about ammonia and nitrifying bacteria, you are fine and headed in the right direction. If you are not comfortable with that or want peace of mind, then sure test for another few days or add a bit more ammonia and see if it starts to process (I am sure it will). It just may take some time for the systems overall bacterial balance to process it "instantly".

Hi! Yes this tank will be long term and an upgrade from my previous due to wanting to keep parameters stable. If this does work out and this tank gives out after let’s say 7-10 years, I will likely upgrade to a 50 gallon which would be my max size if feel comfortable with. I do not mind waiting a few days, although I’m just a bit perplexed on microbacter stating 7 day cycle. I’d rather not kill my clownfish if possible as they were expensive and I hope to keep them their whole life. I know ammonia at 1ppm may be toxic to coral so I am not sure if I should continue running my nano to keep the coral in there. I have never done a move like this and I do t want to screw it up.

 

[Dan_P]

Tank is only 6 days old and this is only my second time cycling a saltwater so I’m still a newbie in my eyes..I used Dr Tim’s Ammonia coupled with MicroBacter Starter XLM as well as a live rock from my smaller tank and biomedia in my canister. It promises to cycle a tank within a week but I’m starting to doubt it. I added ammonia accordingly to read 2ppm. However, it’s been stuck at 1ppm for the past 3 days. That being said, I know API test are not the best but I also tested my mature nano tank and the readings were correct (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate). I added a bit more microbacter as I thought maybe there isn’t enough. Should I continue to wait it out? Should I dose a bit more ammonia to reach 2 ppm again? Testing from my larger tank.

Just to clarify, what tests are in the photograph? The 6 day one?