Large system lanthanum dosing.

anit77

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I set up a large system in the fall of 2020, the total system volume is approx. 660 gallons. As a lot of plans go, sometimes life gets in the way. Through the tail end of covid work got really busy and in the fall off 2022 I had to have major surgery. Then my mom moved closer to me and helping her took a decent amount of time. Since it started running it's been a giant FOWLR and had minimal maintenance done to it. I'd have periods where I'd get some things done and others where I thought about selling everything. Flash forward to the end of this summer and I started putting more effort in and trying to get it ready for coral. I never tested the nutrients, just dosing bacteria and cleaning of everything. I've done several large water changes as well, most well over a hundred gallons. Things are looking much better but there's still a good bit of cyano on the rocks and now dino's on the sand.


Last Sunday I decided to test for nitrate and phosphate. The NO3 was 48 and the PO4 errored out on the ULR tester. Last night I diluted a sample and got 0.57 with 1ml of tank water to 9ml of RO. So, 5.7ppm. I shudder to think of where it was before I started cleaning. Removing several hundred pounds of rock is not an option for me and at the same time I'm scared about dosing lanthanum with quite a few tangs, including a couple of sailfins. So, I've been trying to devise a way I can get this done without any major disruption to the display and this is what I've come up with.

I'm fortunate that the sump is not under the tank, it's in another room on a slightly elevated stand. I'd like to put a Brute can next to the sump, fill it with saltwater and run water from the sump through it. If I equalize the water height between the can and the sump and run a hose or some PVC from the sump, as I pump water back to the sump, water should return to the can from the sump and try to stay equalized, kind of like a like a big overflow box. I can set a pump in a 5 to 10 micron sock and pump the water out through a makeshift filter using a 0.35 micron sediment filter and then through ROX8 carbon. With a powerhead in the Brute, I can hook all the pumps up to an Apex and cycle the timings of how everything runs and dose the lanthanum at intervals, allowing it to settle before the return pump sends the filtered water back to the sump. Lather, rinse and repeat.

This is the sediment filter I've bought.

If this works, I'd look for 3 weeks to a month to get the PO4 down to a stable place so that my DIY ATS can manage the load while I carbon dose and continue to do my cleaning. I already have almost everything I need to set this up just looking for some reinforcement that what I've devised is a good path forward and that the plan is sound. If anyone has any thoughts or pointers I'd love to get your input.
 

Sean Clark

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I think your take is slow 3 weeks to a month approach is great. I think you may be disappointed if your goal is to keep the precipitant out of the display with your new setup.

A very slow drip into the sump will keep the precipitant to a minimum while also slowly tackling your phosphate without adding your modifications.

80 drops or 4 ml/day should drop your system by about 0.1 ppm. Take it slow and your tanks will be fine.

A dirty 100 or 200 micron socks works just like a 10 micron sock. Just rotate new ones in as they start to overflow.

Here is a nice calculator tool if you don't already know about it:
Lanthanum chloride dosing calculator
 
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anit77

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I think your take is slow 3 weeks to a month approach is great. I think you may be disappointed if your goal is to keep the precipitant out of the display with your new setup.

A very slow drip into the sump will keep the precipitant to a minimum while also slowly tackling your phosphate without adding your modifications.

80 drops or 4 ml/day should drop your system by about 0.1 ppm. Take it slow and your tanks will be fine.

A dirty 100 or 200 micron socks works just like a 10 micron sock. Just rotate new ones in as they start to overflow.

Here is a nice calculator tool if you don't already know about it:
Lanthanum chloride dosing calculator
I hadn't seen that calculator before. Thank you!

At 0.1/day it would take almost two months to get down to 0.10. I was thinking double that at 0.2~0.25 drop per day, for at least the first two weeks. That would be slightly more than half the 5.7 in that time. But I'd still be inputting when I feed the fish and any other PO4 released from the rock, sand, tank & plumbing. I know it's going to take time for it all to settle out at a lower concentration, which is why I was looking at that level of removal.

The sailfins in the display are both over a foot long, plus a same sized Naso and multiple other tangs. I really don't want to harm them. That's why I thought giving the lanthanum time to bind and precipitate in it's own vessel would allow it to settle out, then pump the water out from higher up in the Brute can and through multiple layers of mechanical filtration. The goal being no precip and no unreacted lanthanum getting back to the sump or display.

I haven't done anything yet and I'll keep an open mind. I appreciate the input!
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I don't know if the sediment filter will prevent tang issues, but it may.

FWIW, Richard Ross doses small amounts into his skimmer to slowly control phospahte:

 

Sean Clark

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You can definitely dose more and go faster, I was only trying to give you an example of what to expect for your 600 gallons, you can scale it up and expect consistent results like 8 ml/day for a 0.2 ppm drop. That is one of the great properties of LaCl; consistency.
It sounds like you are essentially making a large lanthanum reactor. I have seen others build them with sediment filters and empty DI canisters. Nothing like the scale that you are talking.
I have sent out many ICP test and never have any Lanthanum show up in my system while dosing it straight into the sump daily. It binds with the phosphate pretty much instantly and the flocculant either settles out or gets removed by filtration. Un-reacted lanthanum shouldn't be an issue at low dosing rates until you get very low phosphate readings.
Post some pics of your super reactor and let us know how it goes.
 
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anit77

anit77

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In another system I haven't dosed lanthanum in quite some time. It is still showing up at small levels in ICP-MS tests. Those levels are so low that there aren't any issues, but I was dosing small, diluted, amounts directly into the skimmer intake.

That system wasn't dosed anywhere near the level I'm planning on doing to the display.
 

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