Lionfish and Scorpionfish have flukes.

[WesternSpyKolya]

Hello, I had made a post about my lionfish and scorpionfish potentially having flukes but as it turns out they do. I am certain that it is flukes since the lion has one eye that is cloudy and when I look closely upon the eye I can see the flukes on it, is there any way I can treat them? Prazipro is not available to me currently and I don't know if I can have it since there are restrictions, are there any other reef safe alternatives? I don't have another tank to treat them in.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello, I had made a post about my lionfish and scorpionfish potentially having flukes but as it turns out they do. I am certain that it is flukes since the lion has one eye that is cloudy and when I look closely upon the eye I can see the flukes on it, is there any way I can treat them? Prazipro is not available to me currently and I don't know if I can have it since there are restrictions, are there any other reef safe alternatives? I don't have another tank to treat them in.

There is no "reef safe" fluke treatment that I know of other than Praziquantel, and even then, if you are seeing flukes on the fish's eyes, it is probably Neobenedenia, and that is VERY tough to treat with prazi. Hyposalinity, in a treatment tank, is the best treatment for that.

Are you certain they have flukes? In most all cases, fish with Neobenedenia will have both eyes cloudy, not just one. With one eye, on one fish, the typical diagnosis is some injury.

You could try giving one of the fish a freshwater dip for 5 minutes. If it is Neo, you'll see them drop off dead in the bottom of the container. They'll look like sesame seeds, or fish scales. This won't cure them though, because the tank will still have unhatched eggs in it, but it will confirm your diagnosis.

Jay

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

There is no "reef safe" fluke treatment that I know of other than Praziquantel, and even then, if you are seeing flukes on the fish's eyes, it is probably Neobenedenia, and that is VERY tough to treat with prazi. Hyposalinity, in a treatment tank, is the best treatment for that.

Are you certain they have flukes? In most all cases, fish with Neobenedenia will have both eyes cloudy, not just one. With one eye, on one fish, the typical diagnosis is some injury.

You could try giving one of the fish a freshwater dip for 5 minutes. If it is Neo, you'll see them drop off dead in the bottom of the container. They'll look like sesame seeds, or fish scales. This won't cure them though, because the tank will still have unhatched eggs in it, but it will confirm your diagnosis.

Jay

Thank you for your response Jay, I presumed it was flukes because there is a "film" over his left eye and there looks to be a "water pocket" under that film, I thought that was a fluke but do flukes "ripple" under the current? Another thought I had was that it was stuck skin from his shed since he was newly introduced into the aquarium. I haven't seen him shed but from my other lion I saw him jolt around (my dwarf does that when he is shedding) but I saw no shed, breathing is normal not labored and the fish eats well. It has been 4 days since I bought him so could it be that it is stuck shed on his eyelid? Other fish is a scorpionfish and he's doing well, I haven't seen him with cloudy eyes.

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

There is no "reef safe" fluke treatment that I know of other than Praziquantel, and even then, if you are seeing flukes on the fish's eyes, it is probably Neobenedenia, and that is VERY tough to treat with prazi. Hyposalinity, in a treatment tank, is the best treatment for that.

Are you certain they have flukes? In most all cases, fish with Neobenedenia will have both eyes cloudy, not just one. With one eye, on one fish, the typical diagnosis is some injury.

You could try giving one of the fish a freshwater dip for 5 minutes. If it is Neo, you'll see them drop off dead in the bottom of the container. They'll look like sesame seeds, or fish scales. This won't cure them though, because the tank will still have unhatched eggs in it, but it will confirm your diagnosis.

Jay

Here's a picture Jay, this "blob" seems to move around on his eye.

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

Here's a picture Jay, this "blob" seems to move around on his eye.

Sorry to bother you again Jay, but after looking at his eye for an extended period of time the "mass" seems to wriggle around it and even raised it's body, it's some kind of flatworm. It is on the surface of the eye not inside of the eye, are there any parasites like this to your knowledge? It's a singular one, as far as I can see it's one large flatworm like creature that is causing this.

Edit: He's swimming against the powerhead, I have ordered prazipro and as far as I know it's reef safe for most corals. Hoping it'll arrive on time.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to bother you again Jay, but after looking at his eye for an extended period of time the "mass" seems to wriggle around it and even raised it's body, it's some kind of flatworm. It is on the surface of the eye not inside of the eye, are there any parasites like this to your knowledge? It's a singular one, as far as I can see it's one large flatworm like creature that is causing this.

Edit: He's swimming against the powerhead, I have ordered prazipro and as far as I know it's reef safe for most corals. Hoping it'll arrive on time.

Sorry, I was offline overnight.

Neobenedenia flukes are external, you won't see them move inside the eye. You can sometimes see them "flap" in the water when they have been dosed with prazi and are starting to drop off the fish.

There is also an internal eye fluke. If don't know if they move around inside the eye, I've never looked that close. These are digeneans, they require multiple hosts to complete their life cycle, so won't typically kill a fish. Prazi doesn't work against those unless you carefully dose it in their food.

Now - the swimming into the powerhead is another issue entirely, this fish could well have another issue like a protozoan disease or even gill flukes. Is the lion breathing deeply/faster than normal? Can you post a video of it?

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

Sorry, I was offline overnight.

Neobenedenia flukes are external, you won't see them move inside the eye. You can sometimes see them "flap" in the water when they have been dosed with prazi and are starting to drop off the fish.

There is also an internal eye fluke. If don't know if they move around inside the eye, I've never looked that close. These are digeneans, they require multiple hosts to complete their life cycle, so won't typically kill a fish. Prazi doesn't work against those unless you carefully dose it in their food.

Now - the swimming into the powerhead is another issue entirely, this fish could well have another issue like a protozoan disease or even gill flukes. Is the lion breathing deeply/faster than normal? Can you post a video of it?

Jay I just did a freshwater dip and I saw small white things come off the lionfish which I presume are flukes, they were very small and looked like small sand grains (I don't have sand this small), the mass around his eye turned white after the freshwater dip and he seems to be doing better although right now he's laying on the sand. I'll send a video of him breathing tomorrow since he's breathing pretty fast due to the dip. I don't think he has ich or velvet because the scorpionfish seems unaffected. I'm wondering if it could be bacterial since as you mentioned it's very unusual for one eye to be very clear but the other to be cloudy, the video the LFS owner sent showed him perfectly healthy he didn't have this worm, but the flatworm around his eye has died I believe. 2 weeks until prazi arrives I'm hoping he'll make it, anything I can do in the meantime?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay I just did a freshwater dip and I saw small white things come off the lionfish which I presume are flukes, they were very small and looked like small sand grains (I don't have sand this small), the mass around his eye turned white after the freshwater dip and he seems to be doing better although right now he's laying on the sand. I'll send a video of him breathing tomorrow since he's breathing pretty fast due to the dip. I don't think he has ich or velvet because the scorpionfish seems unaffected. I'm wondering if it could be bacterial since as you mentioned it's very unusual for one eye to be very clear but the other to be cloudy, the video the LFS owner sent showed him perfectly healthy he didn't have this worm, but the flatworm around his eye has died I believe. 2 weeks until prazi arrives I'm hoping he'll make it, anything I can do in the meantime?

If it is flukes, you can buy some time with repeat FW dips every 5 days or so. One bit of concern though is that scorpionfish are also prone to flukes, so if they remain symptom free, that tends to cloud the diagnosis.

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

If it is flukes, you can buy some time with repeat FW dips every 5 days or so. One bit of concern though is that scorpionfish are also prone to flukes, so if they remain symptom free, that tends to cloud the diagnosis.

Thank you so much for your help Jay, the scorpionfish seems to be breathing normally and only goes to swim at night not usually during the day but I presume that is because he wants to swim and not due to the flukes, he spends most of his time buried under the sand and he also eats well. I'm not sure what is going on but do you think prazi will have ill effects on them? I just want to treat it just incase because I saw some white small sand sized things fall off the lion when I did a freshwater dip.

Update: It seems to be back, I think it'll fully die when I get prazipro.

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

Thank you so much for your help Jay, the scorpionfish seems to be breathing normally and only goes to swim at night not usually during the day but I presume that is because he wants to swim and not due to the flukes, he spends most of his time buried under the sand and he also eats well. I'm not sure what is going on but do you think prazi will have ill effects on them? I just want to treat it just incase because I saw some white small sand sized things fall off the lion when I did a freshwater dip.

Update: It seems to be back, I think it'll fully die when I get prazipro.

Jay here is a full video I managed to take of the parasite.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay here is a full video I managed to take of the parasite.

Sorry - I can’t view the video, my main computer is down and it won’t show on my phone.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much for your help Jay, the scorpionfish seems to be breathing normally and only goes to swim at night not usually during the day but I presume that is because he wants to swim and not due to the flukes, he spends most of his time buried under the sand and he also eats well. I'm not sure what is going on but do you think prazi will have ill effects on them? I just want to treat it just incase because I saw some white small sand sized things fall off the lion when I did a freshwater dip.

Update: It seems to be back, I think it'll fully die when I get prazipro.

Prazi won’t hurt them as long as you add good aeration to the tank. Dose it 3x, 8 days apart with a 25% water change prior to treatment 2 and 3. Dose prazi at 2.2 ppm, or Prazipro at the dose given on the label. If you don’t know the exact volume of water in your tank, deduct 15% from its rated volume for rock and sand displacement.

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

Prazi won’t hurt them as long as you add good aeration to the tank. Dose it 3x, 8 days apart with a 25% water change prior to treatment 2 and 3. Dose prazi at 2.2 ppm, or Prazipro at the dose given on the label. If you don’t know the exact volume of water in your tank, deduct 15% from its rated volume for rock and sand displacement.

Thank you so much for the help Jay, I will do that as soon as it arrives. Here's a picture from the video, do you think this is a fluke or something else? It's that white thing on the lower part of his eyelid, it lays flat normally.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much for the help Jay, I will do that as soon as it arrives. Here's a picture from the video, do you think this is a fluke or something else? It's that white thing on the lower part of his eyelid, it lays flat normally.

Sorry - I can’t tell. Just to clarify though, does it look like it is on the outer surface of the eye, or inside?

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

Sorry - I can’t tell. Just to clarify though, does it look like it is on the outer surface of the eye, or inside?

It's on the other surface, it regularly tries to stretch itself and glides across the eye. I didn't see anything within the eye.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It's on the other surface, it regularly tries to stretch itself and glides across the eye. I didn't see anything within the eye.

That’s Neobenedenia then, not the internal digenean flukes. All you fish will need treatment even if they are currently symptom free.

 

[WesternSpyKolya]

That’s Neobenedenia then, not the internal digenean flukes. All you fish will need treatment even if they are currently symptom free.

Thank you so much for the help Jay, appreciate it!