Saltwater and live sand added... Help lol

[90addict]

This is like my 3rd noobie thread lol... My main goal is fish for the kids not coral...55gl tank that I added saltwater using instant ocean reef crystals "mixed in the tank" ‍. Today I added 2 bags of caribsea live sand and then turned the filter on. My plan is to eventually add 30lbs of old dry "live rock" that I bought on fb marketplace (soaking now) and also add 40lbs of live rock from my lfs aquarium's. I guess my question would be, in which order should I add rocks and then green chromies. Should I cycle with a bottle of Dr tims one and only or cycle with live rock? Should I add both rock and chemical? Should I be testing water now or let filter and settle out first? I need a step by step

 

[Lavey29]

You need to cycle the tank before adding fish. This generally takes one to two weeks. Start the process after you put rocks in the tank. Get an ammonia source and get ammonia to 2.0 then add nitrifying bacteria. Do this a couple times as the ammonia drops. What you want is 0 ammonia within 24 hours and measurable nitrates numbers to show your tank is cycling property. Adding wet rock from your LFS helps expedite the process.

 

[90addict]

You need to cycle the tank before adding fish. This generally takes one to two weeks. Start the process after you put rocks in the tank. Get an ammonia source and get ammonia to 2.0 then add nitrifying bacteria. Do this a couple times as the ammonia drops. What you want is 0 ammonia within 24 hours and measurable nitrates numbers to show your tank is cycling property. Adding wet rock from your LFS helps expedite the process.

So as long as salinity is good and temp, add live rock and dry live rock. Add one and only and ammonium chloride after that?

 

[Lavey29]

So as long as salinity is good and temp, add live rock and dry live rock. Add one and only and ammonium chloride after that?

Yes, you need rock in the tank to host your beneficial bacteria for cycling. Add your rock then add your ammonia source. Measure ammonia level to 2.0 then add your nitrifying bacteria. After a few days check ammonia level and repeat the process. Once your tank shows good nitrates production on your test kit then the tank is cycling and ready for first fish.

 

[90addict]

Yes, you need rock in the tank to host your beneficial bacteria for cycling. Add your rock then add your ammonia source. Measure ammonia level to 2.0 then add your nitrifying bacteria. After a few days check ammonia level and repeat the process. Once your tank shows good nitrates production on your test kit then the tank is cycling and ready for first fish.

Thank you!

 

[Lavey29]

Thank you!

There's lots of tank cycling threads on here to give you step by step guidance. Just make sure your filtration is functioning properly and salinity is correct. Patience is the key element in this hobby. You need to make sure no ammonia present before fish go in.

 

[Fish Fan]

Looks like you're off to a good start!

A couple things I'd add is that if you're just keeping fish and motile (moving) inverts and no corals, you don't need the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals salt mix. Regular Instant Ocean salt mix will be just fine for your fish, and cheaper to purchase.

What fresh water source did you use to mix with your salt? You can use tap water for a fish only tank, but keep in mind that if you do you will likely be battling some algae issues in a short while, which can be delt with in a fish only tank. If you did use tap water, give the whole system about 24 hours to run to make sure that no chlorine is in the water, then you can officially start your cycle. Or alternatively, treat the tap water with an aquarium dechlorinating product.

Many of us use a Reverse Osmosis filter followed by a DeIonization filter (RODI system) to make nearly pure freshwater that we then use to mix with our salt mix and to top off the tank. If you wanted to keep corals in the future, and RODI filter system is pretty much mandatory. For fish only, you can work with tap water, it just has some of its own challenges.

You mentioned that some of your rock is old and came from the Facebook Marketplace and that it's soaking now. If this was rock that was in an established aquarium for some time, but has now dried out, it is almost certainly loaded with dead organic material that if you were to just place it in your tank would cause an ammonia spike all on its own. Are you soaking this rock to remove those organics, which would be a good idea, in my opinion? If they are really bad, have you considered bleach curing your old rock?

If you're going to add real, quality live rock from your local fish store it will bring all the microbes you need, so there's no need for the Dr. Tim's One and Only in this case (though if you had a bottle on hand, nothing wrong with adding it). But, you need to get that rock in your tank, obviously. This would be the easiest and fastest way to get your tank ready for your Green Chromies.

If you're starting the tank now with your CarribSea sand and dry base rock, you'd be best to add the Dr. Tim's One and Only so you get a good population of bacteria initially.

Dr. Tim's One and Only, and other products like it such as Fritz Turbo Start, BioSpira, etc. are only adding the beneficial bacteria that you need for a healthy tank. Those bacteria now need something to "feed" on, so to speak. This is where you'll want/need some ammonia in the system to help get your bacteria colony started.

Ammonia can come from several sources during your nitrogen cycle, such as by adding a piece of shrimp from the grocery store or seafood market. The shrimp will break down in your tank, causing ammonia to rise, and the bacteria then can go to work. Likewise, you can ghost feed your tank by adding a small mount of fish food to the tank, as if there were fish in it. The fish food breaks down like the shrimp, and gives off ammonia. You can also add bottled ammonium chloride as a source of ammonia, which is what I prefer over the shrimp or ghost feeding method.

IMPORTANT: Ammonia can also come from using old rocks from another tank that have dried out.

I'm sorry this is so long, but all this is leading to my suggestion that you get a good ammonia test kit. I think you need to determine if your old rocks will be giving off ammonia. If they are, you likely don't need to add any more ammonia, but you won't know unless you're able to test your ammonia level.

Cycling is then just a matter of time and patients. There are products that can accelerate the cycle, like Fritz Turbo Start, but time does the same thing.

I hope that helps and I hope I didn't confuse you more lol! Please post back if you have any questions about what I'm trying to explain about your rocks.

Best of luck with your tank!

 

[90addict]

Looks like you're off to a good start!

A couple things I'd add is that if you're just keeping fish and motile (moving) inverts and no corals, you don't need the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals salt mix. Regular Instant Ocean salt mix will be just fine for your fish, and cheaper to purchase.

What fresh water source did you use to mix with your salt? You can use tap water for a fish only tank, but keep in mind that if you do you will likely be battling some algae issues in a short while, which can be delt with in a fish only tank. If you did use tap water, give the whole system about 24 hours to run to make sure that no chlorine is in the water, then you can officially start your cycle. Or alternatively, treat the tap water with an aquarium dechlorinating product.

Many of us use a Reverse Osmosis filter followed by a DeIonization filter (RODI system) to make nearly pure freshwater that we then use to mix with our salt mix and to top off the tank. If you wanted to keep corals in the future, and RODI filter system is pretty much mandatory. For fish only, you can work with tap water, it just has some of its own challenges.

You mentioned that some of your rock is old and came from the Facebook Marketplace and that it's soaking now. If this was rock that was in an established aquarium for some time, but has now dried out, it is almost certainly loaded with dead organic material that if you were to just place it in your tank would cause an ammonia spike all on its own. Are you soaking this rock to remove those organics, which would be a good idea, in my opinion? If they are really bad, have you considered bleach curing your old rock?

If you're going to add real, quality live rock from your local fish store it will bring all the microbes you need, so there's no need for the Dr. Tim's One and Only in this case (though if you had a bottle on hand, nothing wrong with adding it). But, you need to get that rock in your tank, obviously. This would be the easiest and fastest way to get your tank ready for your Green Chromies.

If you're starting the tank now with your CarribSea sand and dry base rock, you'd be best to add the Dr. Tim's One and Only so you get a good population of bacteria initially.

Dr. Tim's One and Only, and other products like it such as Fritz Turbo Start, BioSpira, etc. are only adding the beneficial bacteria that you need for a healthy tank. Those bacteria now need something to "feed" on, so to speak. This is where you'll want/need some ammonia in the system to help get your bacteria colony started.

Ammonia can come from several sources during your nitrogen cycle, such as by adding a piece of shrimp from the grocery store or seafood market. The shrimp will break down in your tank, causing ammonia to rise, and the bacteria then can go to work. Likewise, you can ghost feed your tank by adding a small mount of fish food to the tank, as if there were fish in it. The fish food breaks down like the shrimp, and gives off ammonia. You can also add bottled ammonium chloride as a source of ammonia, which is what I prefer over the shrimp or ghost feeding method.

IMPORTANT: Ammonia can also come from using old rocks from another tank that have dried out.

I'm sorry this is so long, but all this is leading to my suggestion that you get a good ammonia test kit. I think you need to determine if your old rocks will be giving off ammonia. If they are, you likely don't need to add any more ammonia, but you won't know unless you're able to test your ammonia level.

Cycling is then just a matter of time and patients. There are products that can accelerate the cycle, like Fritz Turbo Start, but time does the same thing.

I hope that helps and I hope I didn't confuse you more lol! Please post back if you have any questions about what I'm trying to explain about your rocks.

Best of luck with your tank!

Holy smokes that's a ton of info to unpack! I greatly appreciate the time it took to write it all and all the info as well!

1. I did not know there was a "regular" instant ocean. I'll be using that next time since I'll only be adding fish for my twin daughters.
2. I used tap water from the hose since the bag said I could do so and not adding coral. What would you treat with if I have an algae outbreak?
3. The fb marketplace rock is soaking because a buddy of mine said to do so. He said to soak and everyday dump and refill. Repeat fora week or so. I don't want their bacteria or dead organics so would you suggest adding bleach to the water? I'd rather not deal with more of a headache lol
4. I'll be buying an ammonia test kit to test rock unless you think bleach would kill that?

Again, I greatly appreciate all your time and info! Attached some pics as well

 

[90addict]

Looks like you're off to a good start!

A couple things I'd add is that if you're just keeping fish and motile (moving) inverts and no corals, you don't need the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals salt mix. Regular Instant Ocean salt mix will be just fine for your fish, and cheaper to purchase.

What fresh water source did you use to mix with your salt? You can use tap water for a fish only tank, but keep in mind that if you do you will likely be battling some algae issues in a short while, which can be delt with in a fish only tank. If you did use tap water, give the whole system about 24 hours to run to make sure that no chlorine is in the water, then you can officially start your cycle. Or alternatively, treat the tap water with an aquarium dechlorinating product.

Many of us use a Reverse Osmosis filter followed by a DeIonization filter (RODI system) to make nearly pure freshwater that we then use to mix with our salt mix and to top off the tank. If you wanted to keep corals in the future, and RODI filter system is pretty much mandatory. For fish only, you can work with tap water, it just has some of its own challenges.

You mentioned that some of your rock is old and came from the Facebook Marketplace and that it's soaking now. If this was rock that was in an established aquarium for some time, but has now dried out, it is almost certainly loaded with dead organic material that if you were to just place it in your tank would cause an ammonia spike all on its own. Are you soaking this rock to remove those organics, which would be a good idea, in my opinion? If they are really bad, have you considered bleach curing your old rock?

If you're going to add real, quality live rock from your local fish store it will bring all the microbes you need, so there's no need for the Dr. Tim's One and Only in this case (though if you had a bottle on hand, nothing wrong with adding it). But, you need to get that rock in your tank, obviously. This would be the easiest and fastest way to get your tank ready for your Green Chromies.

If you're starting the tank now with your CarribSea sand and dry base rock, you'd be best to add the Dr. Tim's One and Only so you get a good population of bacteria initially.

Dr. Tim's One and Only, and other products like it such as Fritz Turbo Start, BioSpira, etc. are only adding the beneficial bacteria that you need for a healthy tank. Those bacteria now need something to "feed" on, so to speak. This is where you'll want/need some ammonia in the system to help get your bacteria colony started.

Ammonia can come from several sources during your nitrogen cycle, such as by adding a piece of shrimp from the grocery store or seafood market. The shrimp will break down in your tank, causing ammonia to rise, and the bacteria then can go to work. Likewise, you can ghost feed your tank by adding a small mount of fish food to the tank, as if there were fish in it. The fish food breaks down like the shrimp, and gives off ammonia. You can also add bottled ammonium chloride as a source of ammonia, which is what I prefer over the shrimp or ghost feeding method.

IMPORTANT: Ammonia can also come from using old rocks from another tank that have dried out.

I'm sorry this is so long, but all this is leading to my suggestion that you get a good ammonia test kit. I think you need to determine if your old rocks will be giving off ammonia. If they are, you likely don't need to add any more ammonia, but you won't know unless you're able to test your ammonia level.

Cycling is then just a matter of time and patients. There are products that can accelerate the cycle, like Fritz Turbo Start, but time does the same thing.

I hope that helps and I hope I didn't confuse you more lol! Please post back if you have any questions about what I'm trying to explain about your rocks.

Best of luck with your tank!

 

[BristleWormHater]

This is like my 3rd noobie thread lol... My main goal is fish for the kids not coral...55gl tank that I added saltwater using instant ocean reef crystals "mixed in the tank" ‍. Today I added 2 bags of caribsea live sand and then turned the filter on. My plan is to eventually add 30lbs of old dry "live rock" that I bought on fb marketplace (soaking now) and also add 40lbs of live rock from my lfs aquarium's. I guess my question would be, in which order should I add rocks and then green chromies. Should I cycle with a bottle of Dr tims one and only or cycle with live rock? Should I add both rock and chemical? Should I be testing water now or let filter and settle out first? I need a step by step

This is exactly how I felt after I set up my tank. I got home sat down after buying all this stuff and was like what did I just do?
Step one: Add rocks, then sand, then fill, after fill set up heater and wait 24-48 hours for everything to settle.
Step two add bacteria (I started with live rock and sand, but there's no such thing as too much beneficial bacteria) I used some microbacter 7 and a bottle of Dr. Tim's.
Step 3: Get test kits if you haven't already, and don't cheap out on bad ones, use salifert test kits. Test daily monitor ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Once nitrite and ammonia hit zero, wait a week keep monitoring them, you could have a spike.
Step 4: Add stuff start with a single hardy fish and a snail or two, but only add snails when you see some algae.
Step 5 remove your training wheels, and try what you want. Make sure you do your research, before you add or dose anything!

 

[PotatoPig]

Is your water chlorinated? If so did you use a de-chlorinator? If not then get some ASAP.

 

[90addict]

Is your water chlorinated? If so did you use a de-chlorinator? If not then get some ASAP.

Honest, I have no clue lol. Just regular "city" water buy in the burbs. Artesian water so I would assume?

 

[90addict]

Is your water chlorinated? If so did you use a de-chlorinator? If not then get some ASAP.

Looks like yes. What do you recommend for dechlorinator

 

[PotatoPig]

Honest, I have no clue lol. Just regular "city" water buy in the burbs. Artesian water so I would assume?

If it’s not well water it’s probably chlorinated.

There’s two types of chemicals used - chlorines and chloramines. Both can be removed by de-chlorinating agents, but without them chloramines stick around for a very long time and are a bit more taxing on a RODI system.

Email your water company and they’ll tell you what they add - it may even be on their website.

 

[Fish Fan]

Holy smokes that's a ton of info to unpack! I greatly appreciate the time it took to write it all and all the info as well!

1. I did not know there was a "regular" instant ocean. I'll be using that next time since I'll only be adding fish for my twin daughters.
2. I used tap water from the hose since the bag said I could do so and not adding coral. What would you treat with if I have an algae outbreak?
3. The fb marketplace rock is soaking because a buddy of mine said to do so. He said to soak and everyday dump and refill. Repeat fora week or so. I don't want their bacteria or dead organics so would you suggest adding bleach to the water? I'd rather not deal with more of a headache lol
4. I'll be buying an ammonia test kit to test rock unless you think bleach would kill that?

Again, I greatly appreciate all your time and info! Attached some pics as well

No problem, glad to try and help!

You're looking for this mix, not the Reef Crystals, which is just unnecessary for fish only.

REGULAR Instant Ocean Salt Mix at Chewy.com

If you're using tap water, you'll want to first use a water conditioner that removes (or, more correctly, binds up) chlorine and chloramine in your tap water, which are very common sanitizing agents in municipal water systems. I use RODI filtered fresh water, so I can't say for sure what to use here (I like SeaChem Prime for my freshwater tanks), but something like API's Tap Water Conditioner or similar.

API's Tap Water Conditioner at PetCo

That makes your tap water safe for fish and inverts. But your tap water will have nutrients that will feed nuisance algae, which can already be difficult to control in these tanks. Again, I don't do fish-only tanks, so I'm not exactly sure what's best, but I would think you could just run a chemical filter media like Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO), which would pull nearly all the phosphate out of your system. Algae (and corals!) need phosphate, so by cutting it down to near zero, you can control the algae growth. Your fish need phosphate too, but they will get it from their fish food. So I think something like that would work, but someone else here will know fr sure.

The soaking of the rock is to get rid of the organics still on it. You can continue to soak it, but bleach-curing it is faster. You're more or less just adding a fair amount of bleach to the water you're soaking your rock in already, the bleach just breaks down and oxidizes the organics much, much more quickly than soaking alone. Your rocks will come out looking clean and white and pristine again. There's a lot of info on doing a bleach cure for rock, so just do a little searching. Maybe start a separate thread if you have questions about that. It's straight forward and pretty easy, but do please be careful. You're using bleach in a way it's not really intended for. Keep the kids back from this one, do this only in a well ventilated area like an open garage, and ideally outside in your lawn or driveway, taking care not to hurt/damage either with the bleach. Be very careful of the fumes! Eye protection, gloves and longs sleeves would not be a bad idea either.

The benefit is that you'll be starting with nice, clean rock, that won't lead to high nutrients in your tank down the road. There's info right here on R2R about bleach curing, but here's some info from the guys at Bulk Reef Supply with a video that may help.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cont...ock-for-a-saltwater-reef-tank-brstv-reef-faqs

Use your ammonia test kit to test your aquarium water for sure, and possibly at the end of the bleach cure, but don't try to measure the ammonia of the bleach solution.

Good luck!

 

[305 Steve]

Hey @90addict i just read through this thread of yours as well and i recommend heading back up to Greenbank and getting him to set you up with your own RODI system! The water out that way is terrible for tanks and even with conditioner it has high TDS. other option is to grab a few 5 gallon buckets and he sells RODI out of the back there! This will make a huge difference in headaches later down the road!

 

[90addict]

Hey @90addict i just read through this thread of yours as well and i recommend heading back up to Greenbank and getting him to set you up with your own RODI system! The water out that way is terrible for tanks and even with conditioner it has high TDS. other option is to grab a few 5 gallon buckets and he sells RODI out of the back there! This will make a huge difference in headaches later down the road!

You know Billy!? Small world lol... He was telling me about an rodi system and I'm definitely gonna get one eventually but I can't justify it just yet. He said it will be ok for now but every water change, change with rodi

 

[305 Steve]

You know Billy!? Small world lol... He was telling me about an rodi system and I'm definitely gonna get one eventually but I can't justify it just yet. He said it will be ok for now but every water change, change with rodi

yeah hes saying it will be ok for now because you are going through cycle and likely to be FOWLR for a while, make sure when you are ready to get serious about corals that you pick up rodi from him or John over at Frags2Fishes is also somewhere local there i would check out. Aquarium world is also a really interesting shop if you ever get the chance to see it, super simple old school setups for the most part where as Frags is very advanced setups.

And yeah next time you see Billy tell him the guy who bought all his Geissemanns says hello from the Keys HAHA

 

[90addict]

yeah hes saying it will be ok for now because you are going through cycle and likely to be FOWLR for a while, make sure when you are ready to get serious about corals that you pick up rodi from him or John over at Frags2Fishes is also somewhere local there i would check out. Aquarium world is also a really interesting shop if you ever get the chance to see it, super simple old school setups for the most part where as Frags is very advanced setups.

And yeah next time you see Billy tell him the guy who bought all his Geissemanns says hello from the Keys HAHA

Will do! Thanks