Trifecta of issues with new clownfish - white spots, stringy poo, not eating

[blub]

Hello all,

Long time (3-years lol) lurker and absorber of information from this forum - has been so helpful to my reef journey so I thank you all. This is my first time posting for advice, mostly because I am not sure if I am just being paranoid or not.

I have a 25 gallon tank, 3 years old. Inhabitants include a pavo damsel, rainsford goby, and now two new clownfish introduced yesterday (all captive bred fish). Also have a tuxedo urchin, a peppermint shrimp, some snails, some blue legged hermits, lps coral, mushroom corals, and a rock flower anenome.

Parameters:
Salinity - 35.3 ppt /1.026
Temp - 24.9 C /76.8 F
Alkalinity - 8
Nitrate - 9.8
Phosphate - 0.39 I know my phosphate is high, I have been trying to find ways to lower it, any advice appreciated, currently trying GFO and it hasn't done anything so far.

Yesterday I picked up two clownfish from my LFS, orange and black already paired. All my fish are from this store and I trust the storeowner. One of the clowns, the black one, had a little white spot on him, and since I am currently dealing with ich in my freshwater tank (such a pita) I asked if that was a sign of ich as I have not encounted it in saltwater yet, but assume it looks similar. He re-assured me and said ich is usually on the fins first and that the spot I was seeing is likely just a speck of debris on the fish. So I picked them up and indeed, the speck on the fish was gone when he entered the bag, so I was relieved.

I introduce them to my tank (I don't have the luxury of space to have a QT unfortunately) after floating the bag and acclimating the water with my tank water over a 40min stretch. I think they were quite stressed from the introduction - I now feel bad and feel as though maybe I should've done a longer acclimitation period. They were breathing quite heavily, the orange one also had very stringy white poo. They would not eat, but assumed it was stress related. I put in an airstone over night to help. Today they are still breathing heavy, but not as bad as the previous day, and have started exploring (good sign?). They still won't eat (I have tried flakes, pellets, brine shrimp soaked in garlic, shrimp soaked in garlic, and callnus soaked in garlic). Reading the posts here I see now that it can take a few days before they eat, but the combination of the white stringy poo and not eating makes me nervous. THEN, the last straw, the orange clown has started developing white spots along its side (video uploaded). There are some bumps in the white part of the stripe too which aren't easily visible. The black one doesn't have any spots and is a bit more active, but the orange one is swimming near the sand and seems a bit more tired. I am really wondering if this is all stress related and should let it ride, or if I should be taking some serious action to save these fish. Keep in mind I am in Canada, and I think a lot of the fish medicine that's available in the USA is not readily available here. :'(

Sorry for the essay, thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello all,

Long time (3-years lol) lurker and absorber of information from this forum - has been so helpful to my reef journey so I thank you all. This is my first time posting for advice, mostly because I am not sure if I am just being paranoid or not.

I have a 25 gallon tank, 3 years old. Inhabitants include a pavo damsel, rainsford goby, and now two new clownfish introduced yesterday (all captive bred fish). Also have a tuxedo urchin, a peppermint shrimp, some snails, some blue legged hermits, lps coral, mushroom corals, and a rock flower anenome.

Parameters:
Salinity - 35.3 ppt /1.026
Temp - 24.9 C /76.8 F
Alkalinity - 8
Nitrate - 9.8
Phosphate - 0.39 I know my phosphate is high, I have been trying to find ways to lower it, any advice appreciated, currently trying GFO and it hasn't done anything so far.

Yesterday I picked up two clownfish from my LFS, orange and black already paired. All my fish are from this store and I trust the storeowner. One of the clowns, the black one, had a little white spot on him, and since I am currently dealing with ich in my freshwater tank (such a pita) I asked if that was a sign of ich as I have not encounted it in saltwater yet, but assume it looks similar. He re-assured me and said ich is usually on the fins first and that the spot I was seeing is likely just a speck of debris on the fish. So I picked them up and indeed, the speck on the fish was gone when he entered the bag, so I was relieved.

I introduce them to my tank (I don't have the luxury of space to have a QT unfortunately) after floating the bag and acclimating the water with my tank water over a 40min stretch. I think they were quite stressed from the introduction - I now feel bad and feel as though maybe I should've done a longer acclimitation period. They were breathing quite heavily, the orange one also had very stringy white poo. They would not eat, but assumed it was stress related. I put in an airstone over night to help. Today they are still breathing heavy, but not as bad as the previous day, and have started exploring (good sign?). They still won't eat (I have tried flakes, pellets, brine shrimp soaked in garlic, shrimp soaked in garlic, and callnus soaked in garlic). Reading the posts here I see now that it can take a few days before they eat, but the combination of the white stringy poo and not eating makes me nervous. THEN, the last straw, the orange clown has started developing white spots along its side (video uploaded). There are some bumps in the white part of the stripe too which aren't easily visible. The black one doesn't have any spots and is a bit more active, but the orange one is swimming near the sand and seems a bit more tired. I am really wondering if this is all stress related and should let it ride, or if I should be taking some serious action to save these fish. Keep in mind I am in Canada, and I think a lot of the fish medicine that's available in the USA is not readily available here. :'(

Sorry for the essay, thanks in advance for the help!

First, are you certain the clowns were tank raised? I can usually tell by the way they look, but I can't say that the one if the video isn't a wild caught ocellaris clown. You said there is a black one, that is probably tank raised. The reason for the distinction is that wild caught clownfish are prone to Brooklynella.

The spots may or may not be ich, but even if they are, that is not the cause of the mucus feces and the fish not eating (at least not this early).

Do you happen to know the salinity of the store's water compared to yours? A large rise in salinity is a huge factor in fish not doing well from the start. Many stores keeps their salinity low, and then those fish need a longer acclimation time, or better yet, lowering the salinity of the receiving tank to match. Fish handle drops in salinity well, but not rises.

Finally, there are some nasty internal diseases that affect clownfish and cause mucus feces and not eating. Trouble is, not eating means you cannot treat them with oral medication. Then, living in Canada means you likely can't get the needed meds anyway (ugh).

 

[blub]

First, are you certain the clowns were tank raised? I can usually tell by the way they look, but I can't say that the one if the video isn't a wild caught ocellaris clown. You said there is a black one, that is probably tank raised. The reason for the distinction is that wild caught clownfish are prone to Brooklynella.

The spots may or may not be ich, but even if they are, that is not the cause of the mucus feces and the fish not eating (at least not this early).

Do you happen to know the salinity of the store's water compared to yours? A large rise in salinity is a huge factor in fish not doing well from the start. Many stores keeps their salinity low, and then those fish need a longer acclimation time, or better yet, lowering the salinity of the receiving tank to match. Fish handle drops in salinity well, but not rises.

Finally, there are some nasty internal diseases that affect clownfish and cause mucus feces and not eating. Trouble is, not eating means you cannot treat them with oral medication. Then, living in Canada means you likely can't get the needed meds anyway (ugh).

I am confident it is tank raised, this lfs only brings in captive bred fish. I have noticed this morning the spots are still there but much more reduced? Maybe it's a stress response?

Yeah the salinity issue is why I feel bad. I did not know a salinity increase by even a few ppt was that shocking to new fish until reading that on this forum looking for answers. I think they do run their tanks in low salinity. Their website says their parameters are anywhere from 32-35ppt. I do remember buying coral there once and testing the water and it was around 33ppt. Of course I made the rookie mistake and did not test the water this time around. I guess I figured they would do fine like my other two fish I got there. Is there anything I can do about this now to help reduce the shock?

I will say, I did notice some white feces from the female at the store and really should have questioned it as well, but I have had plenty of fish poo white under stress so thought maybe not a concern. I also should've asked to see them eat... But I hate to be a demanding and suspicious customer because I do trust him to not sell sick fish and he said he has had them for over a month. If they do start eating do you have a suggestion on medication? I know some of my lfs (freshwater stores) have fish medicine for their own fish, I can beg to buy some of it. Would it be ok to treat them just in case or should I confirm it is an illness?

 

[blub]

I think you were right @Jay Hemdal. This is brooklynella is it not? Does Ruby Reef Rally Pro dosed to the DT work for this? I only ask because I know it's a medicine I can buy locally.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think you were right @Jay Hemdal. This is brooklynella is it not? Does Ruby Reef Rally Pro dosed to the DT work for this? I only ask because I know it's a medicine I can buy locally.

Yes - that does look like Brooklynella. Formalin is the best treatment for this, but Ruby Reef Rally Pro, as a high dose dip AND adding it to the tank works in some cases, especially if you catch it early like this.

 

[blub]

Yes - that does look like Brooklynella. Formalin is the best treatment for this, but Ruby Reef Rally Pro, as a high dose dip AND adding it to the tank works in some cases, especially if you catch it early like this.

Thank you. I am doing a 90min dip (3x regular dose) and treating my tank for the next 3 days at the regular dose. I hope it works. I setup a QT tank for the clowns to go into after the dip to monitor them... Or do you think it is better to put them back in the display right after so they can also have the 3 days of rally in the tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you. I am doing a 90min dip (3x regular dose) and treating my tank for the next 3 days at the regular dose. I hope it works. I setup a QT tank for the clowns to go into after the dip to monitor them... Or do you think it is better to put them back in the display right after so they can also have the 3 days of rally in the tank?

They need the lower dose, longer term rally as well as the dip. If your QT has a good biofilter, they can just stay there, dose that tank as well. Then, if needed, they will be easy to catch if you need to redo the high dose dip. If the QT doesn’t have a biofilter, I’d move them back to the display.

 

[blub]

They need the lower dose, longer term rally as well as the dip. If your QT has a good biofilter, they can just stay there, dose that tank as well. Then, if needed, they will be easy to catch if you need to redo the high dose dip. If the QT doesn’t have a biofilter, I’d move them back to the display.

Thank you so much, I appreciate all the help. Using my sponge from DT in the QT filter to add bio. They seem to be doing better so far!

 

[blub]

Want to follow up on this thread, because I think my experience and treatment might be helpful for people looking for advice on brooklynella (especially for those with limited medicine options).

The 90min ruby reef rally pro bath (3x regular dose) on my clowns cleared the brooklynella instantly. I QT'd them after and treated the quarantine for 3 days at the regular dose of RRRP. I then treated them with API General Cure in the QT following the instructions on the package (first dose, wait 48 hrs, second dose). I did 2 rounds of it. Not sure if this was necessary, but did it for safe measure. I kept them in QT for a bit longer to monitor and just a week ago I added them back to my DT. They are doing great and so far no signs of illness!

I want to mention that I also treated my display with the regular dose of RRRP for 3 days. My corals and inverts didn't seem impacted by the treatment, however, about 2 weeks after treatment my peppermint shrimp died and my euphyllia coral and rock flower nem have retracted and still haven't come back to their fullness... This is likely unrelated to the treatment, but since I have done nothing else differently, I need to mention it just in case it's the treatment that has thrown off something in my tank somehow and it was a delayed reaction. Hopefully they recover after getting back to stability (except the shrimp, rip)...

I want to thank @Jay Hemdal for all the advice, you saved my fish. What a journey. Now I know better about the importance of QT.