Usefulness and possible problems of a biological filter (siporax) in a marine aquarium

[Anxur]

Buongiorno.

Vorrei chiederti cosa pensi dell'utilizzo di un filtro biologico in un acquario marino.

Un filtro come quello nelle immagini, azionato da una pompa che spinge l'acqua all'interno del cilindro.

All'interno del cilindro, il siporax in quarzo o materiali simili come Matrix Seachem o alternativi.

Possono avere una loro funzione? Possono esserci problemi in una vasca di coralli Sps? No2, No3 o sedimenti?

Cosa contiene la mela che si crea nel cilindro? @Randy Holmes-Farley

Google Translate:

Good morning.

I would like to ask you what you think about using a biological filter in a marine aquarium.

A filter like the one in the images, driven by a pump that pushes the water inside the cylinder.

Inside the cylinder, the siporax in quartz or similar materials such as Matrix Seachem or alternative.

Can they have their own function? Can there be problems in a Sps coral tank? No2, No3 or sediment?

What does the apple that is created in the cylinder contain?

EDITORS NOTE: The last line does not seem to be translated correctly. If someone knows the language and has a better translation, then please reach out to a Mod for further edits.

 

[twentyleagues]

A lot of people run bio-reactors. Different types of media have different uses and possible drawbacks. I have read that matrix contains and possibly leaches aluminum. Siporax possibly leaches silicates. Biopellets can and will strip the nitrate and phosphate if too much is used or its tumbled too fast. K1 and its like are typically safe with nothing to really leach out. The slime you are asking about is most likely bacteria that has been sloughed off the surface of the media, put upstream of your skimmer and skimmer should remove the majority that is released.

If you have live rock in the tank and in the sump in an adequate amount for the size of the tank no additional bio media is needed. Some specialties like biopellets (carbon dosing) will help control nitrates and to a point phosphates. But for extra biological bacterial support its not needed or maybe even wanted.

 

[Anxur]

@Randy Holmes-Farley what do you think?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sorry, I can’t read the language on my phone. I’ll have to check it later in my computer.

 

[twentyleagues]

Thats weird when I first read this it was translated to English perfectly. Now its in Italian and then google translated. Anyway the last line originally said "What is the slime that is created in the cylinder contain?"
@Anxur I did not see this was directed at Randy the first time I read it. I apologize for answering with my opinion.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Anxur I did not see this was directed at Randy the first time I read it. I apologize for answering with my opinion.

Anyone is allowed to give their input on this forum. That’s what helps the discussion evolve.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I see a translation now.

I guess my question back would be: what do you want it to accomplish?

Sinch a reactor would be good at converting ammonia to nitrite/nitrate. In most reef tanks, that's not needed or desirable, IMO, and ammonia is best left to photosynthetic organisms, rather than making them have to use harder to metabolize nitrate.

Some types of media may do some denitrification, or act as substrates for heterotropic bacteria when dosing organic carbon. Both of those can be useful, but will depend on the tank circumstances and media type.

The release of silicate would not concern me, as long as there's not an ongoing diatom problem. I dosed silicate, and will likely do so in the future.

 

[Anxur]

OK, I see a translation now.

I guess my question back would be: what do you want it to accomplish?

Sinch a reactor would be good at converting ammonia to nitrite/nitrate. In most reef tanks, that's not needed or desirable, IMO, and ammonia is best left to photosynthetic organisms, rather than making them have to use harder to metabolize nitrate.

Some types of media may do some denitrification, or act as substrates for heterotropic bacteria when dosing organic carbon. Both of those can be useful, but will depend on the tank circumstances and media type.

The release of silicate would not concern me, as long as there's not an ongoing diatom problem. I dosed silicate, and will likely do so in the future.

Sorry everyone for the language.. I must have made a mistake with the "click" and it put the text in Italian..

@Randy Holmes-Farley my tank has 90kg of sand and 50kg of rocks..

I put the biological filter on the advice of a biologist guy here in Italy...

But frankly I would like to remove it:
- It's bulky
- Siporax gets dirty in the cylinder
- I don't like using something that isn't necessary..

Can I remove it now after 10 months of use or risk making a mess?


Now the siporax are in a cylinder reactor with a pump 2000 liter hour


This is my tank https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/an-italian-reef.1082815/#post-13042207

 

[Anxur]

A lot of people run bio-reactors. Different types of media have different uses and possible drawbacks. I have read that matrix contains and possibly leaches aluminum. Siporax possibly leaches silicates. Biopellets can and will strip the nitrate and phosphate if too much is used or its tumbled too fast. K1 and its like are typically safe with nothing to really leach out. The slime you are asking about is most likely bacteria that has been sloughed off the surface of the media, put upstream of your skimmer and skimmer should remove the majority that is released.

If you have live rock in the tank and in the sump in an adequate amount for the size of the tank no additional bio media is needed. Some specialties like biopellets (carbon dosing) will help control nitrates and to a point phosphates. But for extra biological bacterial support its not needed or maybe even wanted.

I'm simply looking for an excuse to remove my biological filter with siporax (avoiding negative feedback in the tank if I remove it immediately)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sorry everyone for the language.. I must have made a mistake with the "click" and it put the text in Italian..

@Randy Holmes-Farley my tank has 90kg of sand and 50kg of rocks..

I put the biological filter on the advice of a biologist guy here in Italy...

But frankly I would like to remove it:
- It's bulky
- Siporax gets dirty in the cylinder
- I don't like using something that isn't necessary..

Can I remove it now after 10 months of use or risk making a mess?


Now the siporax are in a cylinder reactor with a pump 2000 liter hour


This is my tank https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/an-italian-reef.1082815/#post-13042207

Yes, I expect you can remove it. There may be a slight uptick in ammonia upon its removal, but in a tank like that I would not worry.

 

[Anxur]

Yes, I expect you can remove it. There may be a slight uptick in ammonia upon its removal, but in a tank like that I would not worry.

Energetically... 10 parts of ammonium transformed into Nitrate... Are they the same energy? I'll try to explain myself better... If my population produces 10 parts of ammonium will I have 10 parts energetically equivalent in nitrate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Energetically... 10 parts of ammonium transformed into Nitrate... Are they the same energy? I'll try to explain myself better... If my population produces 10 parts of ammonium will I have 10 parts energetically equivalent in nitrate?

Organisms need to spend energy to convert nitrate into the ammonia which they use for many purposes. I am not aware of any use of nitrate that does not involve reduction to ammonia first, or at least which takes less energy to do using ammonia.

 

[Anxur]

Organisms need to spend energy to convert nitrate into the ammonia which they use for many purposes. I am not aware of any use of nitrate that does not involve reduction to ammonia first, or at least which takes less energy to do using ammonia.

So it seems highly counterproductive to me, transforming ammonium into nitrate and then returning to being ammonium through the animal's average metabolism... Seems a little "silly" to me

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So it seems highly counterproductive to me, transforming ammonium into nitrate and then returning to being ammonium through the animal's average metabolism... Seems a little "silly" to me

It is, which is why, for mature reef aquaria, I do not recommend things whose primary purpose is to allow for more conversion of ammonia to nitrate.

 

[Anxur]

It is, which is why, for mature reef aquaria, I do not recommend things whose primary purpose is to allow for more conversion of ammonia to nitrate.

Improve the number of fish..
Is like to dosing NH4?
@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[twentyleagues]

Anyone is allowed to give their input on this forum. That’s what helps the discussion evolve.

This is the way.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Improve the number of fish..
Is like to dosing NH4?
@Randy Holmes-Farley

I’m not sure if you are asking a question, but the number of fish typically put into a reef tank is not normally limited by ammonia production, IMO..

 

[Anxur]

I’m not sure if you are asking a question, but the number of fish typically put into a reef tank is not normally limited by ammonia production, IMO..

Rather than dosing ammonium, wouldn't it be better to add new fish to the aquarium? Fish definitely produce ammonium... Perhaps the problem could be that they also produce other organic types that are bad for the system?

 

[Anxur]

@Big E

What are your thoughts on using siporaxes in a Sps coral aquarium? @Randy Holmes-Farley says that something that works to turn ammonia into nitrate is not advisable as it would be advisable to supply and let the photosynthetic organisms feed on the ammonium. With siporax instead we supply them with No3...

Could that sediment be a problem?

 

[Anxur]

@Lasse what do you think?