Vendor Misnaming

[Aaron Stone]

If you're asking me: there's no 'exactly' about it.

If the implicit suggestion is 'maybe don't accept money from sketchy vendors', then attention can be paid to which vendors might be thought to sketchy, and some consideration could be given to whether that sponsor is worth taking money from in light of what that might do to the public perception of the site.

There's no algorithm -- it is just paying attention to the issue.

I don't claim to speak for the OP, but it looked like you were asking me.

I agree, hence my earlier suggestion:

"the individual that bought the coral document the complaint on the vendors thread and ask for a response. Issues like that build up and will, hopefully, provide that accountability you are looking for without R2R having to be the coral name police."

I seem to be coming off as an **** tonight. My apologies.

 

[smitten with ocean life]

I think I know who you are referring to and its been very much ongoing but we are not here to bash known and unknown vendors. I have walked away in part to this in addition to sudden high jump in prices, Like myself, simply walk away

i am def. not into bashing anyone either, but man, sure would be nice to know who to walk away from!

 

[KrisReef]

I posted an example because you were talking about color variation under different lighting etc. My example was that x can never be y. And its not about R2R being name police, its about having trusted sponsors. If you list a bunch of fake merchandise on ebay, I garauntee they will take down the listings and flag your account.

I see your point.
I also don't see "designer" purses and knock off "designer" anything being comparable to the coral trade. These things come out of the ocean, some get names but the lineage isn't verifiable like a manmade item can be.

The difficulty of policing and enforcing coral hobby names and brands could be a full time job for the FBI but they are busy protecting other stuff.

I do see what you mean, and I try to buy coral in person or from folks I know, and like, but prefer to buy stuff in person so I can see the item in person and evaluate the lighting and the aquarium set up to estimate how it will do for me at home.

I'm glad for the vendors who support the site and remind myself that they are run by people, for profit. I have found that many of them are worth supporting.

 

[KrisReef]

I agree, hence my earlier suggestion:

"the individual that bought the coral document the complaint on the vendors thread and ask for a response. Issues like that build up and will, hopefully, provide that accountability you are looking for without R2R having to be the coral name police."

I seem to be coming off as an **** tonight. My apologies.

Four Star General?

 

[A-10reefer]

I'm glad for the vendors who support the site and remind myself that they are run by people, for profit. I have found that many of them are worth supporting.

I prefer to support smaller vendors, and have ordered from quite a few. Had great experiences. All i was trying to get across is that many vendors, even small ones, take a lot of time cultivating certain strains. If I or any one else buys a CC, GB, RR, SBB, etc I would hope to get what was marketed. My problem comes when you are using someone elses hard work to make a quick buck when its obviously not the same.

 

[VintageReefer]

I somewhat agree with OP because I bought a coral from a paid sponsors website after EXTENSIVE chat about the coral and they promised me a description and photo was accurate and I spent $400 on it and what arrived was exactly what I told them I didn’t want. There is no lighting in the world that would make this coral look like their picture, it was edited. They flat out lied to me and then played victim saying they are a small family business and I’m hurting them by publicizing my order issue - which they did not offer an appropriate resolution for.

I ended up having to file a PayPal claim to get my money back - which I was fair about as I did get a coral, and I didn’t ask for a full refund. I determined the value of what I got and asked for anything beyond that to be refunded.

Working with this seller was the worst and they were arrogant, gas lighting, and anything but friendly.

The coral also mysteriously got bjd and died in about a week, when my tank has never had bjd before and no other corals were affected. Still - I did not push for the full refund and I let them keep 150$

I still see them posting corals that I know for a fact are not accurate pictures and imo they should not be allowed to be a sponsor because we consumers and forum members put more trust in the paid sponsors of this site and they should be honest and trustable

 

[Doctorgori]

I often shop Aqua SD and what I think is going on is a sourcing thing as opposed to a profit conspiracy .... for instance by the time a Rasta torch is in my tank it and a flashlight torch are the same thing ...,wondering if they are just inheriting the name from the source as opposed to being fraudulent
Added the whole name game is a part of the hobby I pay absolutely no nevermind....
Also is this a non profit site or a for profit site? You can make any policy you want but the rub is always the enforcing with the potential vendor wondering if they are next, bottom line profits are just a reality here

 

[Malum Argenteum]

I seem to be coming off as an **** tonight. My apologies.

I didn't get that impression at all, sincerely. Perhaps I'm biased since I agree that the 'named coral thing' is pretty questionable.

We do the 'naming thing' to some extent in the reptile hobby, where I spend most of my energy. There, those morphological categories have a lot of work behind establishing them -- either getting lucky and finding a recessive gene and proving it out and replicating it, or line breeding for at least a few years and establishing a polygenetic trait. Even working with genes that someone else established -- and creating multigene animals -- there's a few generations of work to turn two $5,000 animals into a clutch of $15,000 animals since most of the genes are recessive.

It isn't a matter of some collector having a good spot to dive, and then a retailer cherry picking the sweet ones and charging 10x for them. And at the hobbyist level, it isn't a matter of simply fragging some zoas that involved no more work than caring for them adequately.

 

[Reefer Matt]

In general, not aimed at anyone…Getting a completely different coral is wrong, and should be easy to prove and hopefully correct. But every hobbyist should understand that there is no such thing as a trademarked coral. These animals were not invented by the vendors. There is no central organization like “AKC” for coral to control the different morphs and species. My suggestion is to buy directly from the vendor with the big name if you value the namesake. But that doesn’t guarantee you can sell it for more just because you did so. My advice to the hobbyist is to get what you enjoy, and don’t think about what you can turn around and sell it for. They aren’t watches or sports cars, they’re animals. Happy Reefing!

 

[hunterallen40]

Interesting discussion. I definitely get irritated by this sometimes, and I feel like the traceability of lineage would be a lot easier if people didn't just say "this looks like X" and call it X.

Sometimes it feels like vendors are clearly taking advantage of the buyer. One example that comes to mind is a vendor I saw selling "strats". Priced like the stratosphere zoa, but were definitely stratocasters. That just feels immoral to me... It's as if they are waiting for the customer to make a mistake, and setting up a convenient excuse.

For me, I recently grabbed a "homewrecker" that was very cheap. Daylight spectrum T5's in the photo, so green tenuis with some pink being a homewrecker doesn't seem outrageous. Very good price point, so I grabbed it.

Then I ran into JF at a swap, and he brought the real deal... Quite different.

This is just one example, but I feel like this happens all the time for high end tenuis. I see all kinds of Walt Disneys out there that are not lineaged, and some that don't look like the coral in the slightest.

There is definitely a discussion to be had about coral naming in general, as it's somewhat silly... But from the vendor perspective, it's all good fun.

 

[JayM]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck - it’s a duck.

That said, paying stupid amounts of money for a “named” coral would go away if people would stop buying them. If you had two cheeseburgers sitting side by side that for all intents and purposes were identical, would you pay double for the one with a fancy name?

 

[A-10reefer]

I wasn't trying to bring up the whole named vs un named coral debate lol I know a lot of people dont care about names and thats completely fine. That doesnt change the fact that names are here to stay.

If you had two cheeseburgers sitting side by side that for all intents and purposes were identical, would you pay double for the one with a fancy name?

Thats was kind of my point. They are not 2 identical cheesburgers. If it was an identical cheeseburger i wouldnt have brought it up. Its trying to sell an identical cheesburger but instead you get a mcdouble. Sure, theyre both cheesburgers. Bun, cheese, meat, condiments but are they same? And would you be ok getting a mcdouble instead of what you ordered

 

[Nano_Man]

Yep money doesn’t make you happy if you were on your death bed and they said you can have another week with your family but we take your money. Let’s make loads of money and then be the richest man in the grave yard what a life. I would rather be skint and experienced as much as i can in my life. Sorry for the rant . Some vendors aren’t interested in what you get they just want your money. GREED

 

[Jeremy_d]

Can we take a second to talk about the naming in general? “SUPER NEON GREEN SLIME PURPLE SPACE MONKEY FART ACRO” and “SUPER MEGA ULTRA MASTER HOLY SCOLY”. That stuff has to stop. And stop calling things with three colors rainbow, a rainbow has 7 colors. And it really irks me when vendors coin corals as if they developed the strain and played with genetics to get the colors when they just accepted the phone call/email from the vendor asking if they want it.

VENDORS: STOP CHARGING $600 PER HEAD FOR SOMETHING THAT GROWS INSANELY FAST AND STOPP SELLING FRAGS THAT ARE TALLER THAN 1/2”

BUYERS: STOP PAYING THESE PRICES THEY JUST KEEP GOING UP

Sorry I’ve waited a decade to send that to the masses.

 

[VintageReefer]

If the name is more than 10 words you best bet ima buy it.

Like my Holy Grail Triple Dipped Green Rim Orange Flaked Purple Euphoria Lobophyllia

 

[A-10reefer]

STOPP SELLING FRAGS THAT ARE TALLER THAN 1/2”

You mean smaller than??

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don’t agree with the OP as there is no way to police this on the part of R2R…and coral names are dumb anyway…

But loads of gratitude if he is a hog driver or has anything to do with them.

 

[Jeremy_d]

You mean smaller than??

Yes of course, the white claws are talking

 

[mfinn]

Unless it’s true lineage that can be traced back to the original, it’s all made up. There are very few true corals that have a lineage any longer. It’s on you the buyer to do your research. It’s not on R2R to police that. What a waste of resources.

This.

 

[A-10reefer]

Im not trying to suggest R2R be the name police. That ultimately falls upon the vendors. Which is why having trustworthy sponsors is important.

Names are here to stay, thats just a fact. There are strains that are not being imported, is it rarity in the wild, i dont know. However, Its also an easy way to know what someone is talking about. Without the lineage debate, If i say i have og wolverines, you know what zoa im talking about. Which is a lot easier than saying i have a blue zoa and then playing the 20 question game.

What my whole point was with the post, was say joe bob corals was selling scrambled eggs as great owls. Similar colors, but very different strains. One is imported a lot with a low price tag, one was thought to be gone from the hobby that has made a resurgence with a high price tag. Sorry if theres an joe bob corals on here.

Its more with sponsor vetting snd accountability. Theres like an un written list of un trustworthy vendors for a lack of better words. I have no idea what the process is to become a sponsor. Does R2R look into sponsors or is it just pay x amount per month. Idk