Help needed - Unable to keep coral or invertebrates

[Mutton Biryani]

Hello all,

I'm posting to get some guidance about my complete inability to keep any coral or invertebrates (reason I got into saltwater)

I have had a 75 gal + 20 gal sump (filter sock, biologic media, skimmer and UV light) for over 1 year now. I have a pair of clown fish, blue tank, foxface, blenny, orange line chromis and blue green chormis.

Over the last year, I have unfortunately lost various snails, cleaner shrimp, zoas, and even greenstar polyp and the hitchhikers (bubble algae, aptasia, and bristle worm). And some hermit carbs - although these seem to survive for a few weeks before dying unlike everything else.

My water parameters are salinity 35%, 0 nits, ammonia. Ca 380, Mg 1140, Alk 11. pH 7.8-8. Cu - 0 (at times I've seen a slight tinge in the tubes, but would still be closer to 0 than other lowest measurable marking). I use RO/DI with IO reef crystals, and recently switched to Kent Marine reef salt (because my LFS didn't have IO). Have a couple of LED marine lights (blue +white mix) - nothing crazy to write home about.

When I add snails, they stop moving as I drip acclimate them closer to my tanks settings. Have tried trochus, nassarius, and turbo snails over the year and all die almost right away. Nassarius snails would live for maybe 2-3 hours before going belly up. The others never move after acclimating them and would eventually rot.
The shrimp lived overnight, but didn't make it the next morning. The hermit crabs seem to live but they go find a spot and never move from there. Will move if I agitated them. Wouldn't go look for food etc. Eventually would die

The Zoas I add never open and melt over the 48 hrs. Greenstar polyp never opened either. They interestingly had hitchhikers - aptasia maybe, bristle worm, and bubble algae that I didn't realize until adding them. None of these made it either.

My rocks mostly have green algae. Not much purple cyano (few spots here and there)

I have been to my LFS and they weren't able to figure out exactly why I was having these issues. Initially, I thought it was time so kept a FOWLR tank for a year. The fish do ok, have only had a few losses and mostly bluegreen chromis after they got bullied by the female clown.

I had some fine sand but took that out 6 months ago because I thought maybe that was the problem.

Anyone have a similar problem like mine? Any thoughts or suggestions on what I should try or test?

Thank you very much! I would really appreciate your input

 

[DC Reefer]

Sorry to hear you having such a hard time with this. I would look at running an ICP test (Triton Labs is one vendor) to see if there is something in your water that is killing everything.

Also do you run carbon on the tank?

Good Luck

 

[laverda]

Hello all,

I'm posting to get some guidance about my complete inability to keep any coral or invertebrates (reason I got into saltwater)

I have had a 75 gal + 20 gal sump (filter sock, biologic media, skimmer and UV light) for over 1 year now. I have a pair of clown fish, blue tank, foxface, blenny, orange line chromis and blue green chormis.

Over the last year, I have unfortunately lost various snails, cleaner shrimp, zoas, and even greenstar polyp and the hitchhikers (bubble algae, aptasia, and bristle worm). And some hermit carbs - although these seem to survive for a few weeks before dying unlike everything else.

My water parameters are salinity 35%, 0 nits, ammonia. Ca 380, Mg 1140, Alk 11. pH 7.8-8. Cu - 0 (at times I've seen a slight tinge in the tubes, but would still be closer to 0 than other lowest measurable marking). I use RO/DI with IO reef crystals, and recently switched to Kent Marine reef salt (because my LFS didn't have IO). Have a couple of LED marine lights (blue +white mix) - nothing crazy to write home about.

When I add snails, they stop moving as I drip acclimate them closer to my tanks settings. Have tried trochus, nassarius, and turbo snails over the year and all die almost right away. Nassarius snails would live for maybe 2-3 hours before going belly up. The others never move after acclimating them and would eventually rot.
The shrimp lived overnight, but didn't make it the next morning. The hermit crabs seem to live but they go find a spot and never move from there. Will move if I agitated them. Wouldn't go look for food etc. Eventually would die

The Zoas I add never open and melt over the 48 hrs. Greenstar polyp never opened either. They interestingly had hitchhikers - aptasia maybe, bristle worm, and bubble algae that I didn't realize until adding them. None of these made it either.

My rocks mostly have green algae. Not much purple cyano (few spots here and there)

I have been to my LFS and they weren't able to figure out exactly why I was having these issues. Initially, I thought it was time so kept a FOWLR tank for a year. The fish do ok, have only had a few losses and mostly bluegreen chromis after they got bullied by the female clown.

I had some fine sand but took that out 6 months ago because I thought maybe that was the problem.

Anyone have a similar problem like mine? Any thoughts or suggestions on what I should try or test?

Thank you very much! I would really appreciate your input

Sorry your having so much trouble. Sounds like your copper test sometimes has some color. I would use some Coppersorb or other like media to make 100% sure there is no copper in your system. This seems like the most likely issue.

To clarify, both your nitrites and ammonia are zero, correct? Both are toxic,, especially to inverts and corals. How about your nitrates and phosphates? Both should be low but not zero. Although I doubt it would kill them so quickly if they were zero.

Your Alk is on the high side. That should not be an issue if acclamation is done properly.

Test your RO/DI water for chlorine. Many water companies are adding chlorimine (chlorine combined with ammonia) to the water supply. It is not easy removed by standard RO/DI systems and is toxic. It may be you are getting a small amount that your fish have managed to tolerate. Inverts and corals again are going to be more sensitive to it. Most swiming pool chlorine test kits should work for this.
The last thing I would recommend is to send a tank water sample off for ICP testing. One of the companies will test your RO/DI as well.
Good luck!

 

[Reef.]

This is not an emergency, you say yourself you are after guidance.

My advice is to start threads in the beginner section and ask one or two questions per thread, sounds there is a lot going on here, too much for anyone to answer in one thread.

I would start with a picture of the tank, and list all the parameters, and history of the tank, as much detail as you can give.

 

[RedFrog211]

Definitely sounds like Copper. I’ve heard of copper or rusted metals being stuck in live rock and slowly infecting the water- maybe check for that? Best of luck friend!

 

[Mutton Biryani]

Sorry to hear you having such a hard time with this. I would look at running an ICP test (Triton Labs is one vendor) to see if there is something in your water that is killing everything.

Also do you run carbon on the tank?

Good Luck

I ran carbon for the first 3 months. Don't run it anymore. I thought they were only recommended for temporary use so stopped that

 

[Mical]

I suspect Alk & Cal difference because of low Mag. Bring your Mag up to 1300+, bring your Cal up to 450 and DON'T touch your Alk (let it drop on it's own) Magnesium is a buffer of a sort for Alk & Cal. IMO

 

[Mutton Biryani]

Sorry your having so much trouble. Sounds like your copper test sometimes has some color. I would use some Coppersorb or other like media to make 100% sure there is no copper in your system. This seems like the most likely issue.

To clarify, both your nitrites and ammonia are zero, correct? Both are toxic,, especially to inverts and corals. How about your nitrates and phosphates? Both should be low but not zero. Although I doubt it would kill them so quickly if they were zero.

Your Alk is on the high side. That should not be an issue if acclamation is done properly.

Test your RO/DI water for chlorine. Many water companies are adding chlorimine (chlorine combined with ammonia) to the water supply. It is not easy removed by standard RO/DI systems and is toxic. It may be you are getting a small amount that your fish have managed to tolerate. Inverts and corals again are going to be more sensitive to it. Most swiming pool chlorine test kits should work for this.
The last thing I would recommend is to send a tank water sample off for ICP testing. One of the companies will test your RO/DI as well.
Good luck!

Thank you very much for your detailed reply.

I have used CopperSorb but had the same issue with a snail not making to so I stopped that. I still have it, so I can try to regenerate it using muriatic acid and keep that going for a while. It might be just luck, but I haven't had any ich breakout.

Good to know about chlorine. I'll test my tank for that too. Yeah whatever it is the fish are hardy enough to make it through. I'll check out Triton too. Thanks

 

[laverda]

I suspect Alk & Cal difference because of low Mag. Bring your Mag up to 1300+, bring your Cal up to 450 and DON'T touch your Alk (let it drop on it's own) Magnesium is a buffer of a sort for Alk & Cal. IMO

While those are a bit out of balance and should be corrected, they are not going to kill inverts and soft corals so quickly, if at all.

 

[fish farmer]

While those are a bit out of balance and should be corrected, they are not going to kill inverts and soft corals so quickly, if at all.

I agree I was running similar Ca, Mg and Ph and don't have massive die offs. I'm suprised your alk is way up there with kent salt. I bought a bucket when it was on sale and my alk dropped to around 7 from the mid 8's.

It sounds like something toxic like copper or other metals.

 

[Biokabe]

There's definitely some kind of toxicity in your water - I've heard of corals and inverts slowly wasting away because of excess nutrients or bad parameters, but such immediate mortality is pretty much always the result of some toxin. Copper is the most common and the most likely source, as would be the chlorine mentioned earlier. Another possibility would be fragrance oils - are there any air fresheners or candles or things like that near the tank? I don't think it's terribly likely, but there's something going on there, so trying to eliminate potential culprits.

 

[saltcats]

Is there a chance of any pesticide contamination? Inverts would be very sensitive to those but fish usually aren't.

 

[Bfragale]

Sounds like copper iron or iodine poisoning. I would do an icp test personally. If your dosing iodine- I would suspect this. Iodine is good in low doses b it high levels will cause your issues as well. If not check for rusting metal in tank or pumps. If the tank/rocks/substrate has ever had a copper treatment it could be leaching out.

icp will either tell you what is high or rule out these- it’s worth the cost.
Good luck my friend and happy reefing.

 

[Mutton Biryani]

You guys were right. It was copper and other metals. I bought my aquarium from another hobbiest. He had a brass fittings after the overflow which was leaching copper.
I wish I recognized this sooner but at least I have found a cause.

My home test kit kept showing 0 copper because I run chemipure blue. Sent off a Triton ICP test and copper was still detectable. Doing the Triton detox now.

Also got a few other surprising results.

 

[RedFrog211]

Glad you were able to figure out the issue before giving up! How easy will this be to fix?

 

[Mutton Biryani]

I changed out the brass fittings. Added Triton's detox.
According to the instructions, I have to add it then run it for 3 days then add carbon for 7 days. Doesn't seem too bad. I'll have to see if it works out.
I'll have to send another ICP test...or just add a snail and see if it survives

 

[iamacat]

This same thing happened to me back in 2012. Run cuprisorb for 6 months potentially longer. I had brass fittings for about 6 months before I learned about copper and everything made sense. I had to run cuprisorb for about 6-8months because it was leaching from my substrate. Best of luck.

 

[Mutton Biryani]

This same thing happened to me back in 2012. Run cuprisorb for 6 months potentially longer. I had brass fittings for about 6 months before I learned about copper and everything made sense. I had to run cuprisorb for about 6-8months because it was leaching from my substrate. Best of luck.

Ah I see. Did it continue to leach copper after you ran detox or similar product?

 

[iamacat]

I honestly got tired of testing and I had enough cuprisorb on hand I ran it untill my corals I had in there started to look better. I remember trying a couple frags through the 6 months and they didn’t work out untill the 6 month mark of running the cuprisorb. I left it run for a bit after that and I didn’t have any copper related issues after that. Issues but not that. Honestly if I were to do it again and had money I would have started over fresh. It was a lot of anxiety and not much fun. Funny to think about where I am now to where I was with that issue.

 

[Mutton Biryani]

I honestly got tired of testing and I had enough cuprisorb on hand I ran it untill my corals I had in there started to look better. I remember trying a couple frags through the 6 months and they didn’t work out untill the 6 month mark of running the cuprisorb. I left it run for a bit after that and I didn’t have any copper related issues after that. Issues but not that. Honestly if I were to do it again and had money I would have started over fresh. It was a lot of anxiety and not much fun. Funny to think about where I am now to where I was with that issues

I see. Thanks.
Yeah I thought a lot about getting rid of tank too. Was happy i had a relatively easy solution