High Power LED's on a reef tank

[eswebster]

Anyone run these either the ecoxotic or a DIY version? I have someone that has made a number of LED fixtures for people in our club, array type LED fixtures that is making these and looking for ginnea pigs... however... i want to be the ginnea pig that is cured not the one that gets burned....

Here is some info on the ecoxotic pendant.
Cannon LED Pendants

The build he is looking at is one unit that contains both a 20W Blue and a 30W white high power LED's. I would have three of the units over a 6' tank, 24" deep.

I was even thinking of Blue/White for the first on the left side of the tank Blue/White/Blue in the center and White/Blue on the right side... let me know your thoughts or experience with these types of LED's. Thanks.

 

[roshi719]

First I have heard of these. It would be interesting to see some hard numbers with them. Like par and how big of an area they cover.

 

[bkv1997]

THey had something similiar running over a couple small display tanks at MACNA.

with a blue and white next to each other you could see one part was bluer and one was whiter and they were less than a foot apart. see if you can find any pictures of the ORA display tank from macna.

Brandon

 

[eswebster]

yeah that was one of the concerns.... these will be 4" appart from each other. Thanks for the heads up on the ORA tank.... i'll check it out.

 

[nixer]

if you mixed blue and white in the same fixture it shouldnt get that blue and white look

 

[eswebster]

I think the reason they are 4" appart is because its the closest you can put them with the heat sinks. But i dont think it would be that bad.... The ora tank looked good with those lights.... some nice corals in there too.

 

[evilc66]

Anyone run these either the ecoxotic or a DIY version? I have someone that has made a number of LED fixtures for people in our club, array type LED fixtures that is making these and looking for ginnea pigs... however... i want to be the ginnea pig that is cured not the one that gets burned....

Here is some info on the ecoxotic pendant.
Cannon LED Pendants

The build he is looking at is one unit that contains both a 20W Blue and a 30W white high power LED's. I would have three of the units over a 6' tank, 24" deep.

I was even thinking of Blue/White for the first on the left side of the tank Blue/White/Blue in the center and White/Blue on the right side... let me know your thoughts or experience with these types of LED's. Thanks.

If the fixtures he is building are using anything but Luminous, LEDEngin, or Bridgelux for the high wattage whites, don't bother. The Chinese whites are typically horrible in color, and generally don't live as long as higher quality white LEDs. It's all down to the phosphor used. The Chinese just can't get it right in terms of color. Colored LEDs from China work fine (from a color perspective), other than possibly not living as long.

 

[wld1783]

If the fixtures he is building are using anything but Luminous, LEDEngin, or Bridgelux for the high wattage whites, don't bother. The Chinese whites are typically horrible in color, and generally don't live as long as higher quality white LEDs. It's all down to the phosphor used. The Chinese just can't get it right in terms of color. Colored LEDs from China work fine (from a color perspective), other than possibly not living as long.

+1

Someone came over the other day and we did a PAR measurement of a single LED. The Cree XR-E had almost twice the PAR. I highly recommend Cree LEDs and do like LuxDrive.

Bill

 

[ScubaJay]

Just an FYI, Ecoxotic uses CREE LEDs for most of their fixtures. I had the joy of meeting with one of the founders of Ecoxotic and got to see a demonstration of their products a few months back. Being an electrical engineer major and a bit of an LED nut myself, I was pleasantly surprised and happy to see that they didn't follow the typical trend of running the LEDs at their maximum wattage capabilities (by not doing this Ecoxotic runs the LEDs at a more efficient level for PAR vs Wattage, and the LEDs don't get as hot thus resulting in longer LED lifespan). All in all, the Ecoxotics has been one of the more impressive and well thought out brands that I've seen come to the market. Just my 2 cents...

 

[wld1783]

Just an FYI, Ecoxotic uses CREE LEDs for most of their fixtures. I had the joy of meeting with one of the founders of Ecoxotic and got to see a demonstration of their products a few months back. Being an electrical engineer major and a bit of an LED nut myself, I was pleasantly surprised and happy to see that they didn't follow the typical trend of running the LEDs at their maximum wattage capabilities (by not doing this Ecoxotic runs the LEDs at a more efficient level for PAR vs Wattage, and the LEDs don't get as hot thus resulting in longer LED lifespan). All in all, the Ecoxotics has been one of the more impressive and well thought out brands that I've seen come to the market. Just my 2 cents...

Cool Most CREE LEDs rock:bigsmile:

What is their wattage and on what type of CREE LEDs and Bin#? Also whats the driver, as some are more efficient than others.

I found that the XR-E is 10-15% more efficient at 350mA vs 700mA, but at half the PAR.. That efficiency means almost twice the equipment costs.

LEDs are like a box of chocolates...You really dont know what your getting until you open it up... It sounds like a good fixture but really need to see the specifics...If it rocks I'd love to carry it on my site.



Bill

 

[evilc66]

Just an FYI, Ecoxotic uses CREE LEDs for most of their fixtures. I had the joy of meeting with one of the founders of Ecoxotic and got to see a demonstration of their products a few months back. Being an electrical engineer major and a bit of an LED nut myself, I was pleasantly surprised and happy to see that they didn't follow the typical trend of running the LEDs at their maximum wattage capabilities (by not doing this Ecoxotic runs the LEDs at a more efficient level for PAR vs Wattage, and the LEDs don't get as hot thus resulting in longer LED lifespan). All in all, the Ecoxotics has been one of the more impressive and well thought out brands that I've seen come to the market. Just my 2 cents...

Not true. Ecoxotic uses actual Cree LEDs in only the PAR38 lamps. I should know, I developed them. All of their other products that use high power LEDs (i.e. not the Stunners) use Edison Opto LEDs. Now, on the Panoramas and the retro kits, they use Edison LEDs that have Cree dies. Edison still packages them, applies phosphors to the whites, and lenses them, adding a lot of variation over what Cree would offer in an LED package, even though they technically have the same guts. The Canons use the Edistar emitter. You can even find the complete fixture on the Edison website, although not with the same color temp options on the white, or the blue version, but it's made by them.

 

[ScubaJay]

Not true. Ecoxotic uses actual Cree LEDs in only the PAR38 lamps. I should know, I developed them. All of their other products that use high power LEDs (i.e. not the Stunners) use Edison Opto LEDs. Now, on the Panoramas and the retro kits, they use Edison LEDs that have Cree dies. Edison still packages them, applies phosphors to the whites, and lenses them, adding a lot of variation over what Cree would offer in an LED package, even though they technically have the same guts. The Canons use the Edistar emitter. You can even find the complete fixture on the Edison website, although not with the same color temp options on the white, or the blue version, but it's made by them.

Interesting... Evilc66, please tells us what you know. You say you developed these fixtures? Was that the PAR38s you were referring to or all Ecoxotic fixtures? I hope you don't take me to being nosy, I'm just curious and a bit confused as I was told differently, specifically concerning the panorama modules/fixtures, and I wasn't talking to a sales rep. this was a VP/founder if you will (I believe his name was Chris...) . I know you've been doing LED fixtures, particularly on the nano reef forums for quite a while, so you have plenty more experience than I do. So, if you did develop these fixtures then well done, I can't wait for their to be and interchangeable lens option on the point source fixtures. Though I am still curious what your association is with Ecoxotic? If you currently work for ecoxotic that's awesome, I'm sure there are a wealth of questions from reefers here for you. Though if you were contracted out for development purposes then it remains that Ecoxotic could easily have switched LEDs to what ever they wanted (Cree, Edison, etc..) having similar specifications. I know the initial panorama fixtures produced a 7-8kelvin light which was too yellow, and for that reason the LEDs used were changed such that the current panorama fixtures produce a much crisper white (10k) look. What I don't know, and perhaps you can expand on this, is if that was a swap of the LED manufacturer or simply a swap of the LED bins. I stress that I mean no disrespect if any is taken, and thanks for your time, knowledge, and any insights you can offer regarding this.

~ Jay

 

[evilc66]

It was just the PAR38 that I developed. I never developed this for Ecoxotic, and have absolutely no affiliation with them. I work for Nanocustoms (used to be a sponsor here) and released these lamps over a year ago at MACNA. Unfortunately, we didn't protect ourselves from our supplier, and they ended up selling the lamps to Ecoxotic 9 months later). They are the same lamps internally, with only a change in the trim ring color being the only way to tell them apart (black for them, chrome for us).

Regardless of what I, the VP of Ecoxotic, or anyone else tell you what is in the Panorama strips, there is a surefire way of telling that it's not a Cree LED. If it doesn't look like this:

or this:

...then it's not a Cree. No if's, and's, or but's.

But, they are using Edison LEDs. Some of the products that we make use the exact same LED strips as the Panoramas. We also use some of the same suppliers.

As for the change in color temp, it would be just a bin change. They are still set up the same way as they were from day one with the same series of LEDs.

Now, I'm not knocking Ecoxotics products, as I feel they fit certain needs that many other products don't. I'm just tired of seeing a lot of misinformation being spread around. Just remember, these LEDs are Cree based (uses the die only), but not Cree LEDs. There is a difference.

 

[kevinpratt823]

The crees from Reef LED Lights look nothing like either of those, could you explain?

 

[evilc66]

Reef LED Lights stock both the XR-E and XP-G LEDs. The MCPCB that is shown in the first picture is smaller than the standard 20mm star that is normally used, but the LED is the same. the second picture is just an unmounted XP-G.

 

[kevinpratt823]

Reef LED Lights stock both the XR-E and XP-G LEDs. The MCPCB that is shown in the first picture is smaller than the standard 20mm star that is normally used, but the LED is the same. the second picture is just an unmounted XP-G.

Thanks for clarifying. I just built a 40" fixture with 72 Crees from Reef LED Lights, test fired last night, very impressive.

 

[eswebster]

put the fixtures on the tank and they looked like garbage.... fortunately the guy i bought them from stood behind his word and gave me my money back the next day. He used a 10000k white and a 460nm blue and the blue effect was horrid.... like a blacklight on the tank. Needless to say that will be the last time i go that route for a while. Back to the t5's for me.

 

[evilc66]

It's the blue LEDs that kill it. 470nm blues wash out the tank and give it a windex look really fast. The royal blues that we typically use aren't as bad in that respect. They still give a lot of fluorescence in the corals, but they blend better with the cool white for a more balanced look. Don't give up on LEDs just from this bad experience. You were just the victim of a poor setup.

 

[eswebster]

If i were to design or go with a high power LED setup i would recommend that it be only used for daylighting and that a florecent actinic setup be used along with it. The blues for these particular LEDs were horrid at providing anything more than a pop to corals. The water column literally looked like no lights were on at all.... just dark with the fish almost invisible.

I agree though it was just a poor first attempt setup and i should have known better.

 

[Reefwizard]

the 460 nm cree units i seen are pretty nice, the blue looks like halide blue there is youtube of unit I can post to show ya.