Hyposalinity for Ich in Display

[Max93]

Wait, if your fish have active disease, you need to get the fish into hypo fast, not slow. You should start today and then through multiple small water replacements, be at 1.009 by Monday night at the latest. If you delay it, the hypo may well fail because the disease(s) get too much of a head start. Ich reproduces geometrically and your fish could be very sick by Sunday, and then you would still have three days to get to 1.009

Jay

Jay,

thanks for the urgency. I will start tonight. I will bring it down from 1.026 to 1.016 from tonight to Saturday and be done at 1.009 by Sunday

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay,

thanks for the urgency. I will start tonight. I will bring it down from 1.026 to 1.016 from tonight to Saturday and be done at 1.009 by Sunday

Good luck!
Jay

 

[Max93]

Good luck!
Jay

Thank you! Here goes nothing.

 

[Max93]

Of course my RODI unit starts reading 1 TDS. I’m sure 1 is fine for this, I ordered more media for overnight shipping but it doesn’t get here until Monday. I will proceed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Of course my RODI unit starts reading 1 TDS. I’m sure 1 is fine for this, I ordered more media for overnight shipping but it doesn’t get here until Monday. I will proceed.

No worries about that at all, I use tap water in my QT during hypo.
Jay

 

[Max93]

Day one:

December 16 2021 -

removed almost all inverts and snailsThere’s one hermit crab and one nassarius snail left.
All Corals have been placed in 10g established quarantine where they will sit fallow for 76 days.

I noticed that my convict tang scratched against a rock, three times in a row. I may have noticed ich much sooner than I thought before it had a chance to reproduce at exponential out of control levels.

no white spots visible on any fish at this time except the hippo tang but at a much lower level. Maybe we are at the ich stage where it has dropped off to reproduce. Kole tang was showing 4 white sugar dots this morning when lights came on.

carpenters wrasse was showing ich spots three days ago, none today so far.

lowering salinity from 1.026 to 1.022tonight so I can try and catch the two remaining inverts and potentially an out of sight snail.

ordered two large bottles of microbacter 7. Changed filter socks.
Algae turf scrubber to remain on for the night.

 

[jmichaelh7]

No worries about that at all, I use tap water in my QT during hypo.
Jay

You use Tap water for quarantine?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You use Tap water for quarantine?

Absolutely, dechlorinated tap water for all of my fish QT! Fish don't need ultra-low nutrients and I'm not worried about algae growth in my QT (low lights) so there is no reason to spend the time and money to use RO.

Jay

 

[Max93]

Hippo is COVERED in ich this morning. Working my way to 1.018 this afternoon. I have zero doubts this is ich.

 

[ThePlummer]

So I’ve been wanting to ask this question if you go buy coral frags colonies or add rock etc and janitors why don’t you have to qt them for 75 days also instead of a few weeks like most recommend to prevent ick or velvet ? Who here QT’s corals and such for 75 days I’m curious ?

I QT ALL corals/inverts for 76 days I use a fishless 14 gallon peninsula tank for this procedure.

It would be my recommendation to remove the corals from your DT and put them in a small system for 76 days, meanwhile ALSO leave your DT fallow for 76 days, keeping your fish in the 55. Problem though.... How do you plan on doing a ammonia cycle on the 55 without moving some of the biomedia from your DT to the QT? That's why I like running several separate systems, so I can move the fish accordingly...

I keep two 20 gallon peninsula's AIO's with a pair of clowns in them to keep them cycled for just such a event.

Hyposalinity works, for every part of ick lifecycle EXCEPT when they are in the egg stage, and the egg stage can last up to 76 days before hatching... So, If you Hypo for 30 days, are you really sure you've eradicated Ick?

 

[ThePlummer]

I quarantine my corals, snails and even hermits. I have a separate 10g quarantine and I leave a goby in there or any other fish and I wait for it to show symptoms. If it doesn’t show symptoms of ich/velvet I deem the inverts and corals safe to put in the display. Even doing all this I still got ich. Lol

You get ick simply because you leave a goby in the QT... Fallow means NO FISH for 76 days. Then you've eliminated the possibility of having ick. Leaving a canary in the coal mine doesn't work, as that just continues the ick lifecycle, even if you don't see signs of infection.

 

[Max93]

I QT ALL corals/inverts for 76 days I use a fishless 14 gallon peninsula tank for this procedure.

It would be my recommendation to remove the corals from your DT and put them in a small system for 76 days, meanwhile ALSO leave your DT fallow for 76 days, keeping your fish in the 55. Problem though.... How do you plan on doing a ammonia cycle on the 55 without moving some of the biomedia from your DT to the QT? That's why I like running several separate systems, so I can move the fish accordingly...

I keep two 20 gallon peninsula's AIO's with a pair of clowns in them to keep them cycled for just such a event.

Hyposalinity works, for every part of ick lifecycle EXCEPT when they are in the egg stage, and the egg stage can last up to 76 days before hatching... So, If you Hypo for 30 days, are you really sure you've eradicated Ick?

my understanding is that the ich is totally eradicated after 30 days of hypo eggs and all. Some people go as far as doing 76 days of hypo but I feel like they run into issues at that point, in a display.

Edit: removed my comment I like where the conversation is going.

 

[Max93]

You get ick simply because you leave a goby in the QT... Fallow means NO FISH for 76 days. Then you've eliminated the possibility of having ick. Leaving a canary in the coal mine doesn't work, as that just continues the ick lifecycle, even if you don't see signs of infection.

This is a great point. This is something that lead me to where I am today.
Ich is not visible most of the time. Even 15 years in the hobby I did not know this!

 

[ThePlummer]

Alright guys couple questions:

i am going to begin hypo this Sunday. The reason why I’m not doing it today or tomorrow is because I work a ton. Also, I have calibration fluid on the way that should arrive Friday so I can make sure my refractometer is spot on.

I will update here once I begin and track the whole thing. Hopefully this helps others.

questions:

1. will hypo kill all my beneficial bacteria in my display?
2. If so, should I have some microbacter handy so I can help out the bacteria population once I increase the SG again?

Why not 'ghost feed' occasionally during the fallow period to keep the bacteria on 'life support?

 

[Max93]

Why not 'ghost feed' occasionally during the fallow period to keep the bacteria on 'life support?

Keep in mind that I am doing hyposalinity in my display tank. My questions are in regards to my display.

the fish will get fed two times a day plus nori as normal. However, hypo can bring down the micro fauna quite a bit so that is why I am wondering if I should have microbacter handy to supplement it throughout the 30 days.

 

[ThePlummer]

Keep in mind that I am doing hyposalinity in my display tank. My questions are in regards to my display.

the fish will get fed two times a day plus nori as normal. However, hypo can bring down the micro fauna quite a bit so that is why I am wondering if I should have microbacter handy to supplement it throughout the 30 days.

Gotcha! I must have misunderstood. I personally would still do 76 days of hypo though...Simply becuase 30 days may not be long enough to outlast the egg stage.

I use TTM and the only way I can ensure that I've killed the eggs in my QT operation is to ensure that the equipment is totally DRY between decontamination of equipment. Ick eggs can survive even in fresh water... as long as they are wet, they are viable.

 

[Max93]

Gotcha! I must have misunderstood. I personally would still do 76 days of hypo though...Simply becuase 30 days may not be long enough to outlast the egg stage.

I use TTM and the only way I can ensure that I've killed the eggs in my QT operation is to ensure that the equipment is totally DRY between decontamination of equipment. Ick eggs can survive even in fresh water... as long as they are wet, they are viable.

That’s something I am debating, but totally unsure due to this guide. It states just 30 days (after hitting 1.009)

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity aka Osmotic Shock Therapy (updated 1-11-23) What It Treats: Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans) How To Treat: Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually...

humble.fish

Jay, your thoughts on this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

my understanding is that the ich is totally eradicated after 30 days of hypo eggs and all. Some people go as far as doing 76 days of hypo but I feel like they run into issues at that point, in a display.

Edit: removed my comment I like where the conversation is going.

Just to be clear - the 30 day figure is from the date that the trophonts were no longer visible on the fish. I've had people start hypo on a severe infection and still have trophonts visible after, say, 2 weeks, but they stop the hypo at 30 days, and they then see a relapse. Since you tank will be laying fallow - I would urge you to go 30 days of hypo beyond when the spots are gone, then take five days to get back to normal salinity and then hold the fish for two weeks to ensure they are problem-free.

Jay

 

[Max93]

Just to be clear - the 30 day figure is from the date that the trophonts were no longer visible on the fish. I've had people start hypo on a severe infection and still have trophonts visible after, say, 2 weeks, but they stop the hypo at 30 days, and they then see a relapse. Since you tank will be laying fallow - I would urge you to go 30 days of hypo beyond when the spots are gone, then take five days to get back to normal salinity and then hold the fish for two weeks to ensure they are problem-free.

Jay

Makes sense. Once fish show zero white dots, THEN start counting 30 days.

question - my 10g quarantine sits right next to my display. Should I move it to another room? I was reading that ich can be airborne.

just to be clear as well on my end - the fish are in the display while treating the display in hypo. Two for one.

 

[ThePlummer]

That’s something I am debating, but totally unsure due to this guide. It states just 30 days (after hitting 1.009)

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity aka Osmotic Shock Therapy (updated 1-11-23) What It Treats: Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans) How To Treat: Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually...

humble.fish

Jay, your thoughts on this?

To my mind, this is the most critical part of that article you linked:

How To Treat – Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009.

He's NOT creating (basically) a FOWLR tank, like you are. He's removing the fish from the DT and placing them into another hypo environment. You aren't comparing apples to apples.... My recomendation still stands at 76 days Hypo, because of the egg encrusted stage.... You may be able to run the temp up to speed the process, but you'd be taking a bit of a risk, one that I wouldn't recommend and don't do myself... Raising temp in a freshwater system does work, but FW ick isn't the same thing as SW ick.