Phosphate not dropping after adding Phosguard?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd like to follow up again, in regards to Phosguard specifically, if you don't mind.

I came across a reef central link from 2007 which referenced a study you published, linking Phosguard specifically to leeching Al. I've also found a few more recent quotes like this one on R2R


I have seen a few indirect mentions citing your study, stating that as long as it is rinsed thoroughly and not tumbled, the risk of Al leeching is miniscule, due to the concentrations in your origin experiment. I was just wondering if you cared to elaborate, or if your opinion has changed over the past couple years. (I'm in no way challenging your findings or the original study, I'm just curious of your current day thoughts)

Furthermore, there's a strong exothermic reaction when it is rinsed with water, as well as, quite a bit of off gassing. Can you explain what exactly is getting released? It's not every day us non-chemistry folks add water to something and get met with a face full of smoke/vapor.

Thanks in advance!

The push by Seachem to diss my experiment was really ridiculous.

I worked with them to run new studies they wanted which continued to show aluminum released. I stand by those studies as well as studies showing the effects on organisms by adding aluminum that I published.

Then they ran their own study. They chose a method with a lower limit of detection (based on their own info) that was above the levels I detected. Of course they saw none, and claimed succes that there was no release. I mean seriously, they take us for idiots.

Certainly Phosguard had a historic issue with closing up leather corals that predated me. Adding aluminum to a reef tank had the same effect.

Rinsing helps and I’d certainly do it. Phosguard is ok in small amounts, but if leathers or other corals close up, I’d stop it.

 

[EVOL_LOVE]

Seachem makes two different products for phosphate and silica. I have used both and found Phosbond works better to control phosphate than Phosguard. Also, Phosbond contains GFO for phosphate which Phosguard doesn't.

Seachem - PhosBond

www.seachem.com

 

[ariellemermaid]

Don’t mean to revive a months old thread (I do), but this thread has the exact title I was going to post and updates would be great!

TLDR about my tank: it’s a coral invert QT mostly “fallow,” don’t feed it, nitrates zero, phosphate 0.21. What to optimize everything to experiment more with SPS. After 2 rounds, doubling the dose, and 2 weeks, PO4 is 0.19.

Sounds like here’s where we’re at: Phosguard takes time to work. Does that mean I should just keep replacing it every 4 days with the recommended dose (2 tbsp for 20g)? And it should work eventually (for wherever phosphate is coming from in this setup)?

Sounds like there’s some concern for aluminum leaching. Not a fan of accumulating heavy metals. I don’t know how I could guarantee it’s not tumbling on a small scale. Is there a safer, more effective option that wouldn’t require a reactor for tumbling? Or is the concern minimal enough and the product good enough I should just stay on track?

So anyway, updates! For those who continued with PhosGuard how long and how many media changes did it take to get your phosphates down? Were you able to get from high levels to very low target levels or was there a plateau, etc.?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Don’t mean to revive a months old thread (I do), but this thread has the exact title I was going to post and updates would be great!

TLDR about my tank: it’s a coral invert QT mostly “fallow,” don’t feed it, nitrates zero, phosphate 0.21. What to optimize everything to experiment more with SPS. After 2 rounds, doubling the dose, and 2 weeks, PO4 is 0.19.

Sounds like here’s where we’re at: Phosguard takes time to work. Does that mean I should just keep replacing it every 4 days with the recommended dose (2 tbsp for 20g)? And it should work eventually (for wherever phosphate is coming from in this setup)?

Sounds like there’s some concern for aluminum leaching. Not a fan of accumulating heavy metals. I don’t know how I could guarantee it’s not tumbling on a small scale. Is there a safer, more effective option that wouldn’t require a reactor for tumbling? Or is the concern minimal enough and the product good enough I should just stay on track?

So anyway, updates! For those who continued with PhosGuard how long and how many media changes did it take to get your phosphates down? Were you able to get from high levels to very low target levels or was there a plateau, etc.?

Never had any luck with phosguard. Do you have access to elimi-NP from tropic marin? It works extremely well and once you hit your desired level you can stop dosing and keep an eye open to see if it stays put. You would actually only need to dose two drops if that a day to see a steady drop.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Phosguard and GFO both work fine but are rapidly depleted at high phosphate levels. Lanthanum is much less expensive but may risk tangs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Never had any luck with phosguard. Do you have access to elimi-NP from tropic marin? It works extremely well and once you hit your desired level you can stop dosing and keep an eye open to see if it stays put. You would actually only need to dose two drops if that a day to see a steady drop.

I’m not convinced that this product is a good choice to lower phosphate significantly.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I’m not convinced that this product is a good choice to lower phosphate significantly.

Try it, you'll be surprised!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Try it, you'll be surprised!

Lol

Maybe. A very slow steady drop is reasonable, but in a scenario where Phosguard seemed ineffective, I’m skeptical.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Phosguard and GFO both work fine but are rapidly depleted at high phosphate levels. Lanthanum is much less expensive but may risk tangs.

I QT for coral pests as well as ich tomonts so no fish. I looked into that but was concerned about the particulate generation. No skimmer (or need for one), and only a coarse sponge in HOB for mechanical. However, I’ve since switched back to an old canister filter with a ton of sponges so yeah I might try that next! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Never had any luck with phosguard. Do you have access to elimi-NP from tropic marin? It works extremely well and once you hit your desired level you can stop dosing and keep an eye open to see if it stays put. You would actually only need to dose two drops if that a day to see a steady drop.

Only issue there is the nitrate removal part. I have none but I think that’s been part of my coral struggles, so I’m looking for all the nitrates I can get.