New Trident?

[areefer01]

So it will be MORE than the more important Trident? I doubt that. If it is then it will be DOA. Rumor is “original Trident range”, so I’m still going to guess about $550, which isn’t too bad IMO. At $650-$700 (original Trident cost), it would be a hard pass for me (and probably most people).

Until Neptune releases the price it is all speculation. This isn't directed at you but just in general. Everyone is throwing out prices be it the maven, trident N&P, or Kamore. Vendors are putting stuff out there but again until you see it confirmed by the manufacture it is a swag.

Again not directed at you as I'm sure we are both seeing a lot of posts across multiple products be it the Trident, Maven, or Kamore.

Hope your day is well.

 

[ca1ore]

So it will be MORE than the more important Trident? I doubt that. If it is then it will be DOA. Rumor is “original Trident range”, so I’m still going to guess about $550, which isn’t too bad IMO. At $650-$700 (original Trident cost), it would be a hard pass for me (and probably most people).

We shall see…..

 

[Stevorino]

This thing is going to be awesome, can't wait!

 

[takayan]

I want to know the price!

 

[buruskeee]

Until Neptune releases the price it is all speculation. This isn't directed at you but just in general. Everyone is throwing out prices be it the maven, trident N&P, or Kamore. Vendors are putting stuff out there but again until you see it confirmed by the manufacture it is a swag.

Again not directed at you as I'm sure we are both seeing a lot of posts across multiple products be it the Trident, Maven, or Kamore.

Hope your day is well.

Just sharing my thoughts. IMO if it’s costs more than the original Trident, which is more important to a tank than the NP, then it will be DOA. It will be unattractive at the same price, but if it’s slightly lower, I believe there will be tons of interest.

 

[Stevorino]

I'd be shocked if it doesn't sell out initially at any price. Lots of Apex users like myself who would pay a stupid amount to integrate this into their existing systems.

 

[Biokabe]

I'd be shocked if it doesn't sell out initially at any price. Lots of Apex users like myself who would pay a stupid amount to integrate this into their existing systems.

I don't know about that. At $300 (wishful thinking!) I'd buy one instantly. At $500 I'd pick one of these up as soon as the spousal unit agrees. At $750 I'd sit on the fence before I finally picked one up after the kinks have been ironed out. At $900 I'd stick with my Hanna checkers.

Automating Nitrate + Phosphate testing is very attractive, but if the price isn't right I think it'll struggle to establish itself.

 

[Stevorino]

I don't know about that. At $300 (wishful thinking!) I'd buy one instantly. At $500 I'd pick one of these up as soon as the spousal unit agrees. At $750 I'd sit on the fence before I finally picked one up after the kinks have been ironed out. At $900 I'd stick with my Hanna checkers.

Automating Nitrate + Phosphate testing is very attractive, but if the price isn't right I think it'll struggle to establish itself.

For the greater market, I think you are spot on. I believe most reefers agree with your approach.

I suppose my point though is that there is also an Apex Enthusiast group who will gobble this thing up at $995 no questions asked.

Depending on Apex's supply, I wouldn't be surprised to see the enthusiasts gobble them up for months.

 

[Jimbo327]

I think the issue for Apex is that Hydros is just waiting for them to release the Trident NP price, and they have an incentive to beat it (of both Trident + NP combined) to drive Hydro adoption. They may give up some margin to gain market share. There will always be some APEX enthusiast that will buy any new piece of gear, but the newer reefers that do not have a controller yet...those are the people that Hydros is targeting.

 

[ca1ore]

I have often wondered how many new-to-controller purchases there are every year. 10,000 …. 1,000 ….. less? I would imagine a decent % of A3 sales are upgrades. Once you are in the apex ecosystem you’ve got a whole lot of sunk cost to consider.

 

[Jimbo327]

I have often wondered how many new-to-controller purchases there are every year. 10,000 …. 1,000 ….. less? I would imagine a decent % of A3 sales are upgrades. Once you are in the apex ecosystem you’ve got a whole lot of sunk cost to consider.

You will be surprised. I think the majority of the new reefers in my area are on Hydros.

The DOS QD should have been the original DOS that they released, so to me, that's not a "new" product. APEX has just gotten away with using cheap parts for so long as there were no competition. The DOS is loud. The AFS is loud. I've taken it apart, and the components are embarrassingly cheap.

Now that there is real competition, APEX is finally getting around to upgrading their cheap parts into something half decent. A DOS that is quiet...ummm..that's should have been the standard. I wondered if APEX was even going to release Trident NP if Maven was never a thing...probably not.

The wave engine is a thing of beauty. I bought the MXM...it doesn't work with L1/M1 and didn't sync and doesn't work with gyres. Pretty much useless.

 

[areefer01]

The DOS QD should have been the original DOS that they released, so to me, that's not a "new" product.

2016 maybe was the first DOS release? That is a good while ago. It is updated now and at the same price. Seems reasonable.

Now that there is real competition, APEX is finally getting around to upgrading their cheap parts into something half decent. A DOS that is quiet...ummm..that's should have been the standard. I wondered if APEX was even going to release Trident NP if Maven was never a thing...probably not.

Post merger things are moving along. Consolidation of manufacturing and some product joint venture work (new DOS).

Not sure I understand the N&P comment about if it will be released. As with the Maven both have been shown to the public. Pretty sure it will be released. Timeline of course is up to the respective manufacture.

Pretty sure both will be available before anyone can buy a ION probe.

The wave engine is a thing of beauty. I bought the MXM...it doesn't work with L1/M1 and didn't sync and doesn't work with gyres. Pretty much useless.

MXM works with the Orbits. I'm not sure what you mean regarding sync but the Orbit gyres sync, anit-sync, etc. I can't comment on the L/M1's as I don't run them.

We actually need some standards to get things to communicate better for quality of life improvements and app reduction. Sicce and Kessil Neptune ioTa integration was a huge quality of life improvement. Need more of that for all controllers.

 

[CO2TLEY]

All this talk about MSRP… ill see you guys in the used market in a couple years for a steal lol

 

[ca1ore]

You will be surprised. I think the majority of the new reefers in my area are on Hydros.

Perhaps … perhaps not. I don’t know anyone using hydros, but I tend to engage with more experienced reefers. However, competition IS a good thing. I’d disagree with some of your assumptions, but if something like hydros causes Neptune to up their game, then that’s a benefit to all of us.

Cannot speak to the MXM since if refuse to have anything to do with möbius. Fortunately I have an almost new WXM (bought as a spare for my old black WXM). I dread the day when my non mobius MP40s die.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

but I tend to engage with more experienced reefers.

I think there's a lot to unpack with this statement. Although probably mentioned as a slight to hydros, I think there's a lot of truth to it.

I've had the pleasure of owning a hydros for a short time and having cut my teeth with Neptune Systems I can say that it's hard to even call hydros a versatile controller. I'm not saying that to take away from others experiences, because I think hydros plays into simple cookie cutter reefing. Although, I'm sure there are some experienced reefers who own and swear by it, but I think it's more in spite of how they feel for Neptune as a company. Which kudos to coral vue for taking advantage of that situation.

 

[braaap]

I think there's a lot to unpack with this statement. Although probably mentioned as a slight to hydros, I think there's a lot of truth to it.

I've had the pleasure of owning a hydros for a short time and having cut my teeth with Neptune Systems I can say that it's hard to even call hydros a versatile controller. I'm not saying that to take away from others experiences, because I think hydros plays into simple cookie cutter reefing. Although, I'm sure there are some experienced reefers who own and swear by it, but I think it's more in spite of how they feel for Neptune as a company. Which kudos to coral vue for taking advantage of that situation.

Kind of the vibe I’m getting. I’m deep into Neptune. But I HATE the company and everything they stand for. How they cut corners, don’t support their customers, don’t listen to their customers etc.

I’ve done a ton of research on Hydros and it seems kind of gimmicky. I can fine tune everything on my Apex. Hydros relies on drop downs and a skinned program. Not sure I can get all the control I want. I also don’t like all of the different products. To get what I have in my apex I would need nearly $3,000 in hydros gear. But then I feel like it would be a massively complicated bunch of hardware for no reason.

I also don’t like the jabs and digs by the heads of coralvue at their competitors. Carlos and David rub me the wrong way. They also refuse to answer my questions and just try and sugarcoat their product. I’ve got genuine concerns and questions. They ignore them because they are the tough questions. Ones they likely can’t answer because they lack the experience or knowledge or both.

 

[FMF0331]

I can't see myself buying this thing ( but that's just me )
Never like the looks and design of the original Trident .. Looks like a garbage dump truck.

 

[apb03]

I run hydros on three systems and it works flawlessly, yet to find a feature that I'm missing. To each his/her own, I suppose.

 

[Stevorino]

Kind of the vibe I’m getting. I’m deep into Neptune. But I HATE the company and everything they stand for. How they cut corners, don’t support their customers, don’t listen to their customers etc.

I really don't get the Neptune hate at all.

In the ~10 years I've been using Apex products, I've had only a handful of RMAs. Most of them were fixed for free or a small, reasonable fee.

In fact, the last time I sent them something to repair it was an 8 year old DOS with a motor problem.... they fixed/replaced it and returned it at no charge.

 

[areefer01]

Kind of the vibe I’m getting. I’m deep into Neptune. But I HATE the company and everything they stand for. How they cut corners, don’t support their customers, don’t listen to their customers etc.

The vibe is sort of stick it to the man and we are the party for the people. As an aside hate is a strong word - save that for Brussel sprouts and capers or something along those lines. I get the dislike part but this is an area that is difficult to quantify. People post more out of frustration than golden bombs of light and love. Also how do we know they don't listen?

I also don’t like the jabs and digs by the heads of coralvue at their competitors.

Gets back to the party for the people or we are the small guy (David) taking on Goliath. There are people that are attracted to that. What makes it difficult for me is that these are the same hobbyist that disliked Neptune for doing this.

They also refuse to answer my questions and just try and sugarcoat their product. I’ve got genuine concerns and questions. They ignore them because they are the tough questions. Ones they likely can’t answer because they lack the experience or knowledge or both.

I've had limited experience. On one occasion support was great and to the point. The more enlightening one was going back and forth with them on the Wave Engine and Gyres. This is when I saw the warts.

In any case hobbyist will do well with both or are doing well I should say. Wish we as a hobby community would be more accepting and supportive of the choices we make if different or have a difference of opinion.

Hope your day is going well.