★★★ Project " GENESIS (II) 2020 " ★ [ Re-Engineered / REBOOT ] ★ SPS 110G ★★★

[RJT]

This is one Black Friday you won't forget.

After so many changes this tank has gone through because of pests and evasive corals I agree with redoing the tank. You may have new tank syndrome for a few weeks, but hopefully after that you will be happy with the results.

Do you plan on checking ammonia?

 

[WallyB]

This is one Black Friday you won't forget.

After so many changes this tank has gone through because of pests and evasive corals I agree with redoing the tank. You may have new tank syndrome for a few weeks, but hopefully after that you will be happy with the results.

Do you plan on checking ammonia?

It was a good Black Friday indeed. I got my salt and putty on sale to complete this rebuild.

Yes I will be checking ammonia with a test kit since too high levels will kill my prized fish. I will also get an Seachem Ammonia Alert tag to not get caught off guard.

First I will be testing the bleached rocks for Chlorine after they are rinsed. There can be none before going back into tank.

The tank hasn't looked this clean in ages. Those are all fake rocks and a bin of clean sand (for Wrasse) I put in temporarily so fish have a place to sleep.

 

[RJT]

Good plan. It's always nice to have a clean tank. Mine was filthy until I bought a lot of limpets.

 

[WallyB]

The Flatworm Exit treament for Red Planaria Flatworms is done. It went well after all that worrying and planning. Better safe than sorry. I decided to go a step further. Took out most of the corals and did an extra dip in Revive.

I was surprised at how strong those planaria are. Many died quickly but there were a few strong ones that were still moving after 10 minutes in REVIVE. And that is after they were in flatworm exit bath for an hour. I'm assuming the Flatworm Exit will continue to work in the Frag tank since the carbon takes time to absorb it. I extended the treatment since I have no fish or inverts. I didn't add carbon till 4 hours later. I will be looking closely for any survivors and treat them again if needed.

The frag tank had way more planaria than left in my DT since I took out all the rocks from DT, and if all goes well then treating the DT will be no concern.

Once I had corals out I decided the MONSTER Pink Bubble coral won't go back. I kept one branch that I cut off a while ago. When the BIG one opens up it takes up a 1/3 of the tank and those sweepers are nasty to nearby corals. I will take it to LFS.

Now I just wait for the rocks to finish Bleaching and it will be time for the new Tank Aqua Scape.

I think it soon will be time to end this Tank Thread and start a New Journey Thread on the Tank Re-start....
....with a pocket full of new tools and a thick book of lessons learned over the last 5 years on this 110 alone.

I achieved my goal to finally growing healthy SPS colonies, and then came along the Purple Star Polyps to ruin it all.

 

[Fudsey]

Make sure you link your new thread in here so we can find it

 

[WallyB]

Make sure you link your new thread in here so we can find it

I will link new thread but were not quite done here.


Things didn't go perfect as I thought last night. Today when the lights came on I check on corals at the time they would be fully open. The trumpet were not as full, and the mushrooms certainly in shock, including the mushrooms on the rocks that I never took out to dip in REVIVE. They were reacting to the toxins.

The good news is I don't see an single Planaria flatworms anywhere. That is beauty to my eyes.

Last night I only did carbon. No water changes, so I decided to do a 40% water change. Within an hour, the trumpets came to life. The mushrooms didn't yet and probably will tomorrow.

It certainly good to know how toxic these planaria death toxins are. Not only to fish. The water change step was needed.

I am glad I never did it on the 120G system. It's empty from rocks but now I respect the power of the toxin. My sump is loaded with live rock and there could be hidden planaria in there. I will treat the sump 40G only first. Do water change before joining back to DT with all my prized fish. The toxin is more toxic to fish. Good thing I practiced on the fishless setup.

 

[WallyB]

Quick update on Frag Tank and Flatworm Exit Treatment on Red Planaria.

I have been closely inspecting the Frag Tank and to my suprise there seem to be one thing moving on glass that looked like planaria. It was moving extremenly slowly, but did move. If it's a planaria it just goes to show that even after all that dipping and double treating with Flatworm Exit, one or maybe a few survived somehow.

I want none left. I'll put in a full F-x treatment again since this time there will be hardly any planaria to kill so only tiny bit toxins will be released. I'm leaving the treatment in the system. No water changes. Eventually the carbon will take it out.

Now when I do sump I know I need to treat twice, or longer.

 

[WallyB]

Frag tank has recovered nicely. 2nd dose of Flatworm Exit should have done the job on planaria.

Now I feel confident enough to treat the DT/Sump.

Tomorrow rocks will have bleached for a week, and time to move to rinse and RO water soak.

Getting closer but still plenty of work to do before starting the rebuild.

 

[WallyB]

The rocks have completed the beaching. I removed and rinsed them in garage with garden hose. Plenty of nice pieces to work on the new Aquascape.

Once rocks brought indoors I started the RO water soak.

I decided to take a chlorine test right away with a new Hanna Test kit.

Levels off the charts as expected. We'll see how long it takes for the chlorine levels to drop to ZERO for safe use for Tank use.

 

[WallyB]

The Chlorine levels were off the charts in the first soak, so I took out rocks and put new RO water to help the dilution. That's brought down chlorine drastically.

It may take a few more water changes. We'll see.

The rocks are looking really nice.

.

 

[WallyB]

Rocks are ready after bleaching and rinse soaks. Took a little longer than expected, but worth the wait.

Here is a brief video summary of the steps, process and results.



Onward....

 

[WallyB]

Here is my First Take stacking rocks, pretty well were I laid them randomly on table.




I may do a simple arrangement for the first stage of rocks return to tank. Just spread rocks out for maxium suface exposure to water and light.

Allow bacteria and coraline return to surfaces.

See if any pests return from the sump. Deal with the Ugly stage first before making things more permanent.

 

[Mikeltee]

Those rocks are going to leach Phosphates and Nitrates like crazy. I'm 2 months in and at 1.5 and 70. You may want to put them in a Brute with a skimmer for a month. I love the DIY automation! Well done. I also love how you have the tank beside the monitor. Mine is behind me. I'd probably get more work done if it was beside the monitor. LOL

 

[WallyB]

Those rocks are going to leach Phosphates and Nitrates like crazy. I'm 2 months in and at 1.5 and 70. You may want to put them in a Brute with a skimmer for a month. I love the DIY automation! Well done. I also love how you have the tank beside the monitor. Mine is behind me. I'd probably get more work done if it was beside the monitor. LOL

I have thought of the risks of "bleaching rock" but I only had SPS which were removed. The rest of the rocks were pristine before going into bleach except for star polyps. I don't plan on having corals for a year, staying (FOLR) and I am using same water, and 40G live Sump to kickstart the rocks. I only have 4 fish and the system is handling N&P. I have a large Alage Scrubber (growing Chaeto) that loves N&P to turbo charge growth. I think the rocks could just go in. I could also ramp up the auto water change volumes. I have a rock that has been soaking in live water and I'm testing N&P to know better before proceeding.

The question I have for you is if I put rocks in a brute with fresh salt water will there be high N&P fro bleach rocks? How will the leaching N&P be removed. Skimmer doesn't do that. Running a GFO reactor would remove P, but not N. I know people add bottled bacteria to the Brute to see nitrification, however I was counting on the bacteria in my system to seed the new rocks. Am I missing something in this rock bleaching process. I thought my rocks are like a new piece of porous stone like media.

What is the risk if I put these rocks back into DT? Kill my 4 fish, algae bloom, cyano? I started with bleached rocks over 18 years ago...these same rocks. I did go through Cyano and Hair algae ugly stage and then the coraline came. Hated it but got through it. The goal is to get this FOLR tank back on it feet in about a year. For next Christmas season coral shopping.

 

[WallyB]

@Mikeltee , thanks for the compliment on my setup and your insight into rock bleaching.

I am going with your Brute salt water soak suggestion. Test N&P and see how bad leach is before risking in DT. I don't have a spare skimmer but I will run air stone, and the same high powered pump wash. Do water changes as needed.

I did just test the RO water I had soaked rock in. Nitrate is 2.5-5 mg/L. Not too high but that was only after 24 hours of soaking and 3rd water change. So there is potential for much more leaching.

 

[Mikeltee]

@Mikeltee , thanks for the compliment on my setup and your insight into rock bleaching.

I am going with your Brute salt water soak suggestion. Test N&P and see how bad leach is before risking in DT. I don't have a spare skimmer but I will run air stone, and the same high powered pump wash. Do water changes as needed.

I did just test the RO water I had soaked rock in. Nitrate is 2.5-5 mg/L. Not too high but that was only after 24 hours of soaking and 3rd water change. So there is potential for much more leaching.

I did 100% water changes weekly and no skimmer. I put most in the display afyer a month and had a skimmer on it for 2 weeks with no livestock. It's down to 1.5 50. The rest is in a Brute with a skimmer. The funny thing is that coraline is starting to grow on the rock in the display! No livestock whatsoever! 10 days 6/1 bleach 3 days 1/1 vinegar 1 hour in citric acid and 5 days under high powered fans in my 67 degree basement. I detected Nitrates on day 1 in the brute and it processed ammonia fast as well. I don't know how in the hell some bacteria made it. The rock was in my tank for 14 years and it came from the ocean. It had some thick coraline on it and it's very porous. I used tims one and only but I don't think that it needed it.

 

[WallyB]

I did 100% water changes weekly and no skimmer. I put most in the display afyer a month and had a skimmer on it for 2 weeks with no livestock. It's down to 1.5 50. The rest is in a Brute with a skimmer. The funny thing is that coraline is starting to grow on the rock in the display! No livestock whatsoever! 10 days 6/1 bleach 3 days 1/1 vinegar 1 hour in citric acid and 5 days under high powered fans in my 67 degree basement. I detected Nitrates on day 1 in the brute and it processed ammonia fast as well. I don't know how in the hell some bacteria made it. The rock was in my tank for 14 years and it came from the ocean. It had some thick coraline on it and it's very porous. I used tims one and only but I don't think that it needed it.

@Mikeltee, this info you provided is valuable to me. Many thanks.

I'm glad I didn't just put these rocks into DT as planned since I want this next restart to go smoother than in past. Believe it or not I was about to throw rocks in to condition in DT for a few weeks before final glue/putty assembly and then I read your post. You make me stop and think. Good thing.

As I mentioned I started with hand-me-down bleached rocks 7+ years ago in my original 65G office tank. Things were going fine first 12 months, and the the issues started. First came a cyano outbreak like no other, and when the cyano faded came a GHA outbreak that was even worse.

Same rock that I bleached now plus a few extra aquired since then for a larger tank.

I could never figure out why these outbreaks started 12 month later. I blamed myself for overfeeding tank adding too many aminos since the SPS really colored up. I did consider that N&P was in the bleached-rocks and was feeding the GHA roots from the surface of rock. During the GHA outbreak the N&P tests showed nothing since GHA was consuming both. My theory was that maybe the GHA growing on rocks helped leach out the N&P from rocks, since I gave up on the endless GHA battle, took out the rocks, scrubbed off all GHA, many rinses in Salt water and put them back same day. Issue was solved.

They were all beautifully covered in coraline under the GHA. The GHA never came back and I had no issue with these rocks for years, till I got the stupid Purple Star Polyp Outbreak.

You may have saved me similar past issues with your suggestion to expect N&P leach and properly pre-condition rocks this time. I certainly will be monitoring the water parameters both on the DT and the soaking rocks.

I do hope that I can lessen the ugly stage, keep fish alive and speed up the rock restart since I am keeping the original sump filled with lots of Live rock and some live Sand in my Refuge. I know that I am at risk of past pests coming back like Aiptasia. No worries since Aiptasia are easy to get rid of with a few Berghia or FileFish, and near to impossible to not get in a new system anyway.

I don't think I need to add bacteria to the rock soak water. Maybe some Brightwell Bacteria in the DT once rock are put back to help raise bacteria level. I'm not sure which is best (Micro Bacter StartXLM, Bacter 7, or Bacter Clean).

All the best on your rock restart, and keep me informed if you learn anything new.

Many Thanks,

Wally

 

[Mikeltee]

You might get lucky and not have much die off, but considering that is the most purple rock I've ever seen, I'll assume that you are in the same boat as I am. It also depends on how porous your rock is as well. I'd suggest letting it sit for a week in a Brute, take a measurement at that point, and then decide your next course of action. If your anything like me, you can't wait to get back up and running. Spending thousands for ocean rock is just not financially responsible for me. You may have that option though, but you never know what you getting in that rock. I'll assume that you are an engineer as I am, and we calculate everything in life, especially risks. After dealing with dinos for 2 years, I chose the sterile rock route.

I cycled with Tims, and once in the display, I dosed a bottle of Microbacter7, next was a bottle of Microbacter Clean, and now I'm dosing AF Life Source as BRS said it took sterile rock to 90% diversity (measuring >=1% NSW substances). That's good enough diversity for me! I also culture tetra and iso phytos as well as Apex, Tigger, and tisbe pods. Now that your Alk bot is done, give it a shot. It's fun, cheap, and highly scientific! I went with the Posideon Reef System for phyto and these for pods:

I suggest CoralHubus for starter cultures and skip the nanno. Nate has the thickest goop in the game and creates and sells his own fertilizer. He's on here too and helped me level up my game. The plan is a couple of mandarins in a few months.

 

[Mikeltee]

My Phytoplankton and Copepod Culturing Experience

17wks ago I started Culturing Nanno Phyto and Tisbe Pods using the Poseidon Reef System (The Phyto Tank). I harvest the Nanno every Sunday and after 16 harvest from the same culture I purchased all is still good. I always exchange a starter culture with the previous weeks starter culture so I...

www.reef2reef.com

That thread got me started if you are interested. Nanno is easy. Tetra is medium and Isochrisis is advanced. You just need to start with a good culture and maintain sterility with common sense, seperate tooling, and 100% rubbing alcohol. I run my water through a UV for a few hours before innoculation but there are other ways to sterilize your water for best results. There's a good thread on here... Nate actually like nanno, but for feeding pods, you are better off with tetra if that's your only green algae. Nanno will culture in a toilet so you need to be careful with it around other cultures. Once my tank is 100% I may add it as a third option.

 

[WallyB]

Hey @Mikeltee,

Tons of info to digest.

I'm really enjoying this chat with a fellow engineer. You tease me with more tech project ideas. I have two projects on the horizon while I wait for rocks to finish puking. One more single tank water changer to also automate the 3rd tank, and a dedicated single tank frozen food feeder using an mini table top Ice Cube Maker (Super easy design), and one day if time permits a 3D printed compact single Tank Alk tester based on the original protype and code, so anyone can build a copy.

Thanks for the Pod and Plankton project. I used to have a manadarin for years and lost it in a freak accident. He lives on in my Avatar Photo. I did cultivate pods the madarin using Tiger Pods and Live Phyto from Reef Nutrition. I only needed to buy the pods once to get started and had endless food for the Mandarin. I think I will want a Mandarin or two again to add to this new tank. I will certainly enjoy cultivating food again since as you say it's so simple, if you keep tools sterile. Once a brine shrimp got into my copepod farm somehow. I didn't notice. Then I noticed when he got huge and was eatting up my whole harvest like a combine machine.

So you had something worse than my Polyps causing you to bleach. I don't want to even mention the D word to jinx myself. Sorry to hear you had to go through that since I know that you probably suffered trying quite long before going the nuke rute. I assume you totally sterilized your system. I didn't so our restarts are a bit different with my live sump. I also skipped the rock acid bath thinking my rocks don't need it. Maybe I shouldn't have since that would have opened the pores in all the live rock. I'm just as impatient as you to get started. So are my fish to get back their home. Unfortunately we can't rush anything since the pain may be worse.

I'll be posting progress on the rocks here. You are a bit ahead of me, so if you learn something new come back to share with everyone. Maybe you have a tank thread I can follow. Either way works.

All the best.

Wally