1, 2 punch to Leathers

[norfolkgarden]

So I have been very disheartened about my lack of ability to keep simple leather corals. Even sinularia fades over a month's time.
Frogspawn does okay. Mushrooms don't seem to be extremely happy and seldom reproduce over the past two years.
Capnella (Neon green Kenya tree) seems to be the only thing we do really well with. The long tentacle GSP does well after I do a water change. But I have always used that in addition to testing as my 1st Source that the aluminum beads need to be replaced.

I may have found the reason the leathers fade out after a month.

We use the aluminum beads as a primary phosphate export and use Marine Pure blocks in addition to the live rock to help with nitrates.
Just spent an hour reading through searches on Marine Pure blocks....

Will switching to GFO and removing the Marine Pure blocks be enough to remove the aluminum? In addition to the regular water changes.

About how long should I expect it to take to remove the aluminum?
I cut an 8x8x4 block in half and rinsed it well before adding it to the tank.
Been using the white beads instead of the GFO because they fit better in the plastic screen without falling out.
Oh well.

Thank you for this forum and all the previous answers!

Always something new to learn....

 

[DEWreefing]

I have been using marine pur blocks for 2 years I have 6 in my sump I do not think that is your problem. Seems like you are using phosguard I would run gfo instead.

Please post your parameters.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that the easier first step is the phosguard swap to GFO, but aluminum may or may not be an issue for you.

Are you able to keep any other corals?

 

[norfolkgarden]

Yes, lol, sort of.

Corky finger, Grubes gorgonian, grandis paly's (3 new pups in the past 5 months), several other types of paly's, several types of Xenia, but the pom pom Xenia looks thin. Bluegreen sympodium looked great until a couple of questionable fish choices chowed down on it.
Several types of neon GSP.
The mushrooms live but I have only had three reproduce in the past several years. IronMan discosma, has produced two of the pups.

Purchased smaller mushrooms can grow out to about 1.5 to 3" wide, but not all do.
My tank is on the extreme low end of growth from what I have been reading about for the past 6 years.

Tank had a major crash several years ago when the 6" deep DSB reached saturation. At the time I had no idea that you had to properly deep clean the sand or how much filth that incredibly small grained Sugar Sand could collect in between the grains until I remove it from the tank.

That was my first attempt at a saltwater tank after having fresh water for several decades.

It has been rebuilt since then as a bare bottom with 200 pounds of live rock in a 75 gallon tank without a sump.
Using 2 Marineland 400 HOB filters with 4 bio wheels and 4 plastic screens full of aluminum bead media to remove phosphate.
1 powerhead, don't remember the brand. Sometimes it feels like I have too much flow for a softy tank.
Water changes and top off are all done manually.

The LPS frogspawn is only 3 months old.

I work out of town often and I am not 'allowed' to have plumbing leaks while I'm gone 200 miles away.
[emoji54]

Attempting to grow leathers and sinularia has been a dismal failure for the past several years. They will look fantastic when I bring them home or receive them and within a month or two they are down to almost nothing.

I agree that the easier first step is the phosguard swap to GFO, but aluminum may or may not be an issue for you.

Are you able to keep any other corals?

 

[norfolkgarden]

No algae issues except I am slowly losing the war with bubble algae over several years. 4 small turbo snails keep everything else clean. no cyano issues except once in a small area for a week. no diatom issues ever.
All of the rock work and the back glass and some of the side glass is covered in purple coralline algae with a few spots of red coralline algae growing in some of the lower light areas.

 

[norfolkgarden]

FTS

 

[DEWreefing]

I have a feeling I know why you have a phosphate and nitrate issue. You actually have way to much rock in that tank. Which will trap waste. What kind of power heads are on the tank?

 

[Midrats]

I think the tanks looks good. With that much rock I think the Marinepure blocks are completely unnecessary. Do you ever run carbon? I see you keep gorgonians, love Grube's, biochemical warfare may be the culprit.

 

[jrwoltman]

No algae issues except I am slowly losing the war with bubble algae over several years. 4 small turbo snails keep everything else clean. no cyano issues except once in a small area for a week. no diatom issues ever.
All of the rock work and the back glass and some of the side glass is covered in purple coralline algae with a few spots of red coralline algae growing in some of the lower light areas.

This is kind of off on a tangent, but have you tried emerald crabs for your bubble algae issues? I had the same problem and the emeralds devoured all of the bubble algae in a few months.

 

[Mark]

I would pull the marine pure and phosguard. I would also remove the wheels off those bio wheel filters. You don’t need a wet dry biofilter competing with all that live rock and creating nitrates. Follow up with a large water change to dilute your aluminum levels. My personal experience is that leathers are sensitive to aluminum more than other softies. I know of some folks that that run gfo in-line after phosgaurd to remove aluminum, but that seems pointless if GFO removes phosphates as well. Not sure if this actually works to remove aluminum. Can’t hurt to run a little. Just don’t overdo it.

 

[norfolkgarden]

This is kind of off on a tangent, but have you tried emerald crabs for your bubble algae issues? I had the same problem and the emeralds devoured all of the bubble algae in a few months.

We have one Emerald crab. It doesn't do much. I got it hoping it would have a taste for bubble algae but it didn't work with this one.

 

[norfolkgarden]

I have a feeling I know why you have a phosphate and nitrate issue. You actually have way to much rock in that tank. Which will trap waste. What kind of power heads are on the tank?

This is what about a 170 pounds of the rock in the tank looks like. There is another 20 pounds of pukani and maybe 15 pounds of Fiji live rock.

The suction on the 2 bio filters is never clogged thanks to the Turbo snails so the flow rate is pretty good out of each of them in a vertical loop from back top down to bottom back. The single power head adds a horizontal loop and randomized the flow a little.

What I need to do is similar to what some pet shops do for occasional supplemental filtration.
Get a canister filter and spend an afternoon blowing out all the nooks and crannies and suck it up with the canister filter.

 

[norfolkgarden]

I think the tanks looks good. With that much rock I think the Marinepure blocks are completely unnecessary. Do you ever run carbon? I see you keep gorgonians, love Grube's, biochemical warfare may be the culprit.

I occasionaly use carbon but not on any set schedule. The last time I used it I wiped out all the toxic clove polyps. They were starting to spred pretty quick so it wasn't a huge loss but they were colorful.

 

[Mark]

This is what about a 170 pounds of the rock in the tank looks like. There is another 20 pounds of pukani and maybe 15 pounds of Fiji live rock.

The suction on the 2 bio filters is never clogged thanks to the Turbo snails so the flow rate is pretty good out of each of them in a vertical loop from back top down to bottom back. The single power head adds a horizontal loop and randomized the flow a little.

What I need to do is similar to what some pet shops do for occasional supplemental filtration.
Get a canister filter and spend an afternoon blowing out all the nooks and crannies and suck it up with the canister filter.

I would have a little more flow. Leathers like a little current. I always see them on the reef crest when I dive. Not in some stagnant lagoon. They love strong light too.

 

[norfolkgarden]

Not sure of any other way to post this. This is typical flow in most of the lit portion of the tank.
Definitely not SPS reef crest but not a stagnant Lagoon either.
[emoji4]

Watch "Flow in 75 gallon tank 2" on YouTube


Watch "Flow in 75 gallon tank 1" on YouTube

 

[norfolkgarden]

So the next step will be removing the Marine pure blocks, then swapping out the aluminum beads for the GFO. Then a water change.

Still need to pick up a canister filter and some type of hose with a powerhead on it to blow out the entire rock structure.
The powerhead we have is designed for an undergravel filter so I can probably just take off the exhaust spreader and attach the right diameter hose to the exhaust.

Will keep you updated.

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions!
[emoji4]

 

[Midrats]

Why do you feel you need to use GFO?

 

[norfolkgarden]

I have not been able to keep leathers alive for more than a month in the past 2 years.
Tried on 5 different occasions.
Reading up on multiple threads, leathers are more prone to aluminum sensitivity then most other corals.

Between the marine pure blocks and my normal use of aluminum beads to export phosphate, that is my current guess on why all of the other easy corals I have in my tank do OK and the leathers die within a month or two.

I am simply swapping out phosphate export mechanisms.

 

[DEWreefing]

Leathers require lots of flow so when they shed it get blown off add a power head leave the marine pure remove the phosguard. Video of my leathers and softies under extreme flow.

Watch "NEW Tank 200g sps build" on YouTube

 

[Rich Klein]

What are your numbers?