3 Clowns one small tank

Trex · Dec 11, 2012

This will work for the short term. Make plans to separate them --- in time a pair will form and they will start to spawn. When that happens the 3rd clown will not be welcome. You will be shocked at how quickly things will turn South, and how quickly a pair can kill another clown.

JasonPG · Dec 11, 2012

Trex said:
This will work for the short term. Make plans to separate them --- in time a pair will form and they will start to spawn. When that happens the 3rd clown will not be welcome. You will be shocked at how quickly things will turn South, and how quickly a pair can kill another clown.

What lighting does this tank have?

A lot of misinformation about clownfish and their social order. Clownfish form HAREMS in the wild. Clownfish don't form PAIRS in the wild. A harem means 1 sexual female in charge, 1 sexual male below her and dozens of non-sexual males. 3 clownfish can do just fine in a tank. 12 clownfish can do just fine in a tank (look at marvin's clownfish tank thread). Those fish were obviously tank bred and that means they were young and non-sexual when you got them. You're fine. Don't lose any sleep.

Trex · Dec 11, 2012

JasonPG said:
A lot of misinformation about clownfish and their social order. Clownfish form HAREMS in the wild. Clownfish don't form PAIRS in the wild. A harem means 1 sexual female in charge, 1 sexual male below her and dozens of non-sexual males. 3 clownfish can do just fine in a tank. 12 clownfish can do just fine in a tank (look at marvin's clownfish tank thread). Those fish were obviously tank bred and that means they were young and non-sexual when you got them. You're fine. Don't lose any sleep.

If you say so.

This is not the wild, the non-sexed fish are able to escape when the female ( or the male ) decides that they aren't welcome anymore.

To say that it will be fine and it will work out is doing a disservice.

There are very few examples of this working, and a great great deal more of dead clown(s) being the result -- it is up to you if you want to take the risk. I personally have seen this too many times to tell someone not to lose sleep over it.

JasonPG · Dec 12, 2012

Trex said:
If you say so.

This is not the wild, the non-sexed fish are able to escape when the female ( or the male ) decides that they aren't welcome anymore.

To say that it will be fine and it will work out is doing a disservice.

There are very few examples of this working, and a great great deal more of dead clown(s) being the result -- it is up to you if you want to take the risk. I personally have seen this too many times to tell someone not to lose sleep over it.

No offense, but I find it hard to believe that you've ever seen 3 percula clownfish who are happily sharing a BTA and have been introduced to each other before sexual maturity suddenly turn on each other.

My breeder friend barb has a trio of ocellaris. The third non-sexual male helps to defend the nest. My buddy glen has a trio of ocellaris. The third non-sexual male also helps to defend the nest. My LFS guy has 3 picassos that have actually formed 2 separate harems in his 180 gallon (the male fertilizes both nests, not exactly and ideal situation). Although I personally don't keep any breeding trios I trust my three friends and the scientific consensus of every single article and book I have read on clownfish social structure. They form harems, not pairs.

Clownfish do not abruptly kill the non-sexual males in their harem every 2 weeks.

That being said, if you have a wild caught female that is say 5 years old and has been sitting at the top of her social order and is suddenly placed into a tank with another 5 year old female... there is going to be an issue. Very quickly. That's not what we have here and this guy has nothing to worry about.

Trex · Dec 12, 2012

It is your choice to believe that. I am just going off of 20+ years of observation with spawning clowns.

BTW -- clownfish do not form "harems" in the wild. A harem would imply more than one subordinate sexual partner -- clowns will only have one.

JasonPG · Dec 12, 2012

I think we both can agree individual fish will have their own personality so I will concede there is a small element of risk with any grouping of clowns. However, I really don't think that's the case with a young tanked raised trio. Regarding the social order here is a quote from Joyce Wilkerson's book, "Clownfishes":

"A typical clownfish social unit consists of one mature female, one mature male, and often a few adolescents who must settle for whatever space and food the adults forgo. The youngest fish avoids the chases and challenges of larger group members by signaling its acceptance of their higher position in the social unit. By intimidating adolescents and forcing them to expend greater amounts of energy to compete for food and a sheltering portion of the anemone, the dominant male and female maintain themselves as the larger and the only sexually mature adults in the group. Adolescents grow slowly, if at all, remaining small (only about half the size of the adult female) and incapable of reproduction as long as the dominant male and female are healthy. The loss of a resident adult is the adolescent's only path to sexual maturity within this hierarchy."

I think you are right in pointing out that my use of the term "harem" to represent a matriarcal social order is incorrect. But it's definitely not limited to just the sexual pair in the wild and they don't execute all non-sexual members. : )