At what point would you consider Hydros as good as Apex?

[massymas94]

I like my Apex but I have no experience with Hydros. Both look nice but both have their inherent issues as seen in reviews and forums (nothing is perfect). It’s like looking for the perfect issue-free job, you’ll never find it. I would just weight what each can do, the ease of use, UI, and cost - then decide which system makes sense for you and your tank.

Yeah I totally agree they both have their issues, I think I just had a problem with that person at the reef club insisting that Apex is so far set above. *Personally* not saying one is inherently better than the other

 

[JeffB418]

This is what I have too and the amount of functionality I have is what is prompting me to ask the question "what are those Apex people talking about?" As I read more from people in this thread, it seems like there may be a general misunderstanding of what Hydros can do. I imagine the lack of youtube videos (in comparison to Apex) showing setup of complex hydros systems may be to blame. Coral Vue has their videos but less than 10k people subscribe to that channel verses the BRS channel that is at 98.4k subscribers. And they have 0 videos that I could find where they even mention the Hydros.

Even a recent video they posted just 3 months ago titled:

Which Is Right for YOU? 16 Tips for Choosing Aquarium Controllers & Monitors!​

hilariously does not put the Hydros on the display table (though it does show up as them scrolling through the website)

I think it really comes down to better marketing

Or maybe I just need to adjust my tinfoil hat

Apex has been around for 20+ years, with Hydros just a handful years. That difference doesn't help Hydros pernitrate the masses. Plus yeah BRS (the 10,000lb media gorilla in the room) doesn't have a vested interest in promoting a brand that competes against their own house brand (Neptune), so don't expect much there. Yes they sell Hydros but 1) it took them awhile to jump on it, 2) they don't even stock the full lineup.

A big thing that pulls alot of people to Neptune over Hydros is the Trident. Seems easy, it tests what you need to know and is foolproof. But I think also Neptune/BRS marketing has also brainwashed the masses to thing that you need to know your CALC and MAG values constantly, and I have to disagree. Calc and Mag can be easily manually tested as a WAY less rate than they sell you on. So down to Alk testing, Hydros has 3rd party solutions for Hydros for alkalinity testing currently (Alkatronic, KH Carer, KHG w/ aim module) and soon will have their own integrated solution (X10 + iV). Alk only testing solutions are way cheaper to run over time compared to Trident reagents as well. Also something to note tho... Coralvue, the parent company of Hydros does currently manufacture and distribute a 3rd party Trident reagent product.

 

[JeffB418]

Yeah I totally agree they both have their issues, I think I just had a problem with that person at the reef club insisting that Apex is so far set above. *Personally* not saying one is inherently better than the other

Each have their own strengths, and personally find them hard to compare as an apples to apples. I always tell people, there are no winners in the "Apex vs Hydros" debates. It's not black and white. They are different, and Coralvue purposely designed Hydros to BE different. They stepped back and said "what would we do if WE designed a controller". And for sure there is bias on both sides, fanboys on both sides, haters on both sides, etc.

Signed,
Self confessed Hydros Fanboy

 

[n2585722]

This is what I have too and the amount of functionality I have is what is prompting me to ask the question "what are those Apex people talking about?" As I read more from people in this thread, it seems like there may be a general misunderstanding of what Hydros can do. I imagine the lack of youtube videos (in comparison to Apex) showing setup of complex hydros systems may be to blame. Coral Vue has their videos but less than 10k people subscribe to that channel verses the BRS channel that is at 98.4k subscribers. And they have 0 videos that I could find where they even mention the Hydros.

Even a recent video they posted just 3 months ago titled:

Which Is Right for YOU? 16 Tips for Choosing Aquarium Controllers & Monitors!​

hilariously does not put the Hydros on the display table (though it does show up as them scrolling through the website)

I think it really comes down to better marketing

Or maybe I just need to adjust my tinfoil hat

Check out my build thread by clicking on my Tank Thread banner in my post. I start with the Hydros controller stuff on page 7. I got the X4 starter pack right after they came out. I have it controlling the standard things at the tank and my ATO, AWC, mixing station and RODI unit. As far as mixing station it will auto refill my DI reservoir and transfer the mix tank contents to the fresh water reservoir if the fresh water reservoir goes low and the mix tank contents is ready to use. Once the contents is transferred it will refill the mix tank with DI. All I have to do is add the salt mix and press a button when it is ready for use. I also get alkalinity readings in the Hydros from my KH Carer and use those for dynamic dosing. When the X10 comes out the Hydros system will be able to check alkalinity, pH and salinity using the X10 with the iV system. I came from the Digital Aquatics Archon system and slowly moved things over from the Archon to the Hydros and I have so far been able to do anything that I was doing with the Archon and more. I have 12 Hydros controllers. There are 10 in a single collective. I plan on adding the other two to the collective also. I am making a new controller board. I will add them to the collective once I get finished with the controller board. I am very pleased with the Hydros controller and have been able to do some complex things. They did add features and I took advantage of them as they came out even if I had it currently doing the same thing. An example is the RODI filter output. I was already doing it before they came out with it but using the predefined output it cut down on the amount of outputs used to do it. Both ways are in the build thread. With combiners you can create OR, AND, NAND and NOR gates with those outputs by using either AND or OR combiner mode for direct AND or OR. For NAND and NOR you invert the inputs and the use the OR combiner mode for NAND or the AND combiner mode for NOR gates. You can even create the more complex XNOR and XOR gates using multiple outputs.

 

[apb03]

I am planning on getting a controller soon and looked at both in depth. In the end I decided that I will be going with the Hydros. Their feature set is too compelling and I will always put my money on vendors that do not close off their ecosystem.

The X10 with IV and Kraken are game changers for me. I will have a solid and upgradeable meanwell power supply that eliminates all the messy and dangerous cable issues and compatible with my battery system out of the box. Not to mention the free Alk testing. All ip67.

Yeah Hydros you sold me, now ship it already.

 

[fishynate]

I have and use both - the apex on a smaller 30 gallon and the hydros on my 220ish gallon.
In my experience I prefer the hydros for ease of use and reliability and haven’t found anything that it can’t do for me.
The apex is more complicated, but I haven’t seen that translate into more useful - at least not for my needs.
The one thing I do like more on the Apex is the DOS pump. It integrates well and has been a workhorse for me. That may be solved by the new hydros brick with the integrated 4 dosing heads - but I would rather not have to buy a whole new controller for it.

 

[massymas94]

I have and use both - the apex on a smaller 30 gallon and the hydros on my 220ish gallon.
In my experience I prefer the hydros for ease of use and reliability and haven’t found anything that it can’t do for me.
The apex is more complicated, but I haven’t seen that translate into more useful - at least not for my needs.
The one thing I do like more on the Apex is the DOS pump. It integrates well and has been a workhorse for me. That may be solved by the new hydros brick with the integrated 4 dosing heads - but I would rather not have to buy a whole new controller for it.

That has been my only issue so far. I’d love an option from hydros that can move water as quickly and as far as the DOS for AWC from my basement but I haven’t found anything yet that compares at that price point

 

[rtparty]

That has been my only issue so far. I’d love an option from hydros that can move water as quickly and as far as the DOS for AWC from my basement but I haven’t found anything yet that compares at that price point

The Versa blows away the DOS in my opinion and experience. Quieter and far better built.

Apex nor Hydros can control the Versa so that’s a moot point.

 

[alabella1]

The Versa blows away the DOS in my opinion and experience. Quieter and far better built.

Apex nor Hydros can control the Versa so that’s a moot point.

Isn't the new MXM supposed to control the Versas?

 

[lvzx14]

When the Hyrdros UI looks better than it does, I found it super ugly with very limited graphing options.

I just wanted to quote this as it is my biggest gripe with my hydros setup, fusion alone made me switch my main tank to neptune with the trident being a bonus.

 

[rtparty]

Isn't the new MXM supposed to control the Versas?

No. It is one of the MANY swing and misses with that release. They said "maybe in the future"

I think it would cannibalize sales from the DOS if Apex could control the Versa. Especially Trident controlled dosing.

 

[alabella1]

No. It is one of the MANY swing and misses with that release. They said "maybe in the future"

I think it would cannibalize sales from the DOS if Apex could control the Versa. Especially Trident controlled dosing.

Are they not all under one umbrella now? They need to cut the crap, trim the fat, pool all resources and put out the best gear from all the companies combined.

 

[rtparty]

Are they not all under one umbrella now? They need to cut the crap, trim the fat, pool all resources and put out the best gear from all the companies combined.

They are all under Aperture now, yes. But each company is still running mostly separate. To some degree at least.

Not to mention the coding for Neptune and Ecotech is likely VERY VERY different. It will take some serious time and resources to make everything play nice and thoroughly test it.

 

[blaxsun]

The Versa blows away the DOS in my opinion and experience. Quieter and far better built.
Apex nor Hydros can control the Versa so that’s a moot point.

That's not been my experience. The Neptune DOS is pretty much the standard when it comes to pumping anything over great heights or distances.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I think they're trying to figure out how to divy up market share. I'd be surprised to see sky go any further in development just as we won't ever see mobius become a controller. The dos should also fall by the wayside for versa.

I've had Neptune controllers ever since ACII and have cut my teeth on their way of logic while following along as they progressed with how to program an outlet.

I was given a hydros to try and program for a group of guys and my impression was that it locks you into a small enclosed gate that only allows for basic functionality. People are talking about complex functions, but I really didn't see it.

There was one thing that I really needed hydros to do, and it turned out that it couldn't do it. I needed to convert pH into a 0-10v output so that a 3rd party controller can piggy back on the supplied probe. I reached out to coralvue for guidance and after about a week, they sat up and took my questions serious, then a lot of back and forth to find out that it will be put on a long list of things to sort add whenever they get around to it.

I'm biased in the fact that I'd like to see hydros succeed, but not because I want to buy into that ecosystem, but because I agree that Neptune has become overpriced and they need to have some market share stripped from them.

Unfortunately for my case the guys that were hoping to get hydros to work on the 3rd party controller ended up having to purchase apex gear for twice the cost. Purchasing 12 hydros would've been a huge savings.

 

[rtparty]

That's not been my experience. The Neptune DOS is pretty much the standard when it comes to pumping anything over great heights or distances.

Versa is 18 vertical feet and DOS is 24 vertical feet.

DOS is exponentially louder, uses soft metric tubing that isn’t great by any stretch, requires an Apex, must be hardwired, and is large for 2 heads. They also designed them to be stacked and then added zero waterproofing so when the top unit leaks, it destroys the bottom unit. The DOS uses a stepper motor that is found on Ali Express for super cheap. If memory serves, Neptune negotiated a deal with the supplier that locked GHL out of using the same motor. You can put a GHL board in a Neptune DOS and it becomes super quiet. Meaning Neptune COULD quiet the DOS and chooses not to. I find that strange.

Versa uses RO tubing standard, has a much easier and feature rich app, can run standalone, much smaller and compact, the base station for 4 pumps is amazing for space and wire management, can be run in continuous mode (DOS can’t do this), and is far better looking IMO. You’re also not locked into an ecosystem to use one.

 

[blaxsun]

Versa is 18 vertical feet and DOS is 24 vertical feet.

DOS is exponentially louder, uses soft metric tubing that isn’t great by any stretch, requires an Apex, must be hardwired, and is large for 2 heads. They also designed them to be stacked and then added zero waterproofing so when the top unit leaks, it destroys the bottom unit. The DOS uses a stepper motor that is found on Ali Express for super cheap. If memory serves, Neptune negotiated a deal with the supplier that locked GHL out of using the same motor. You can put a GHL board in a Neptune DOS and it becomes super quiet. Meaning Neptune COULD quiet the DOS and chooses not to. I find that strange.

Versa uses RO tubing standard, has a much easier and feature rich app, can run standalone, much smaller and compact, the base station for 4 pumps is amazing for space and wire management, can be run in continuous mode (DOS can’t do this), and is far better looking IMO. You’re also not locked into an ecosystem to use one.

Yeah, I know the DOS is louder, larger. It works great with the other Neptune gear and has run flawlessly for 2 years, so no complaints.

 

[JeffB418]

I think they're trying to figure out how to divy up market share. I'd be surprised to see sky go any further in development just as we won't ever see mobius become a controller. The dos should also fall by the wayside for versa.

I've had Neptune controllers ever since ACII and have cut my teeth on their way of logic while following along as they progressed with how to program an outlet.

I was given a hydros to try and program for a group of guys and my impression was that it locks you into a small enclosed gate that only allows for basic functionality. People are talking about complex functions, but I really didn't see it.

There was one thing that I really needed hydros to do, and it turned out that it couldn't do it. I needed to convert pH into a 0-10v output so that a 3rd party controller can piggy back on the supplied probe. I reached out to coralvue for guidance and after about a week, they sat up and took my questions serious, then a lot of back and forth to find out that it will be put on a long list of things to sort add whenever they get around to it.

I'm biased in the fact that I'd like to see hydros succeed, but not because I want to buy into that ecosystem, but because I agree that Neptune has become overpriced and they need to have some market share stripped from them.

Unfortunately for my case the guys that were hoping to get hydros to work on the 3rd party controller ended up having to purchase apex gear for twice the cost. Purchasing 12 hydros would've been a huge savings.

Yeah as a power user, I have been fighting for the variable 0-10v out control for more advanced control. The 0-10v input is super flexible but the diy 0-10v output stuff falls short other than basic lighting control or static voltage outputs. Unfortunately they prioritize their effort on things that have a greater “bang for their buck”, which I get. But someday I hope it gets implemented.

 

[blaxsun]

They're both good - they both have flaws - you'll generally be fine with either.

 

[Aquarist76]

I've been on the Apex bandwagon for years but I'm getting more and more frustrated on how poorly built their products are. I've been thinking about switching to something else for awhile now.