Back in after 2 yr hiatus. From MH to LED....

greg1786 · Feb 8, 2017

I've been out of the hobby for about 2 years and its about that time again

. I will be starting a build thread soon but I'm currently in the earliest stages of the design phase. I have a 125gal standard 6ft reef ready tank. I will be going sps dom. Mixed reef again. This time around however, instead of MH I will be going LEDS. I've always run MH or t5 or a combo of the two so I need a little LED advice.

I've been researching what lights I'm going to use for about a month now and id like to get some opinions from you guys. I'm planning to go with 3 165w bricks from eBay. They generally range from about 100-225 USD per brick. I am looking for a fixture that is dimmable, has built in timers, a controller, and a spectrum between 14k and 20k when all channels are lit. I have been looking at many different brands on eBay and Amazon but I was hoping you guys who run or have previously run one or more of these types of lights could give me some insight on what brands you may recommend and why. Thanks in advance for any help offered, happy reefing! -Greg

mcarroll · Feb 8, 2017

They make a pretty nasty hot spot and don't have great spread – not great for isolated placement like you have in mind.

I suspect that you'll find that three is OK on paper in terms of power, but also that you'll want better coverage than three will provide. So just be prepared to need more....then it's all good either way. Especially if you don't end up needing more.

greg1786 · Feb 9, 2017

mcarroll said:
They make a pretty nasty hot spot and don't have great spread – not great for isolated placement like you have in mind.

I suspect that you'll find that three is OK on paper in terms of power, but also that you'll want better coverage than three will provide. So just be prepared to need more....then it's all good either way. Especially if you don't end up needing more.

Thanks for the input mcarroll, much appreciated. After hearing this I feel I may have overestimated these lights. I did feel very comfortable that 495 watts of LEDS would be plenty of power and three of them would create plenty of spread over 6ft. This of course is as you said, " on paper", though.

The lack of spread is perhaps the most concerning for me actually. I used to run a 5 bulb MH fixture 2x 150w and 3x 250w with 4x48" t5ho geissman actinics for blue supplement. As you well know the coverage from mh is excellent so I don't want to sacrifice too much light spread for the setup I have in mind. My main reasons for going to LEDS are to reduce heat, slimmer more attractive profile, and to reduce electricity consumption. That said I don't want a far inferior fixture either because I'm not willing to sacrifice the health of my corals.
More input good or bad is much appreciated. If anyone would like to recommend a particular brand or brands is welcomed also! Thanks!

mcarroll · Feb 9, 2017

Most manufacturers seem to be pretty conservative in their recommendations, so don't get too put off, just plan for more coverage if it's important.

Double the number of fixtures if you want coverage that's twice as good. Anything up to and including that would be a fine plan – whatever makes sense in your scenario.

As long as they are dimmable and you have a light meter to compare them, you just balance them together for the correct overall light level you want. All of them will run at a lower output level than just a single set would be able to.

greg1786 · Feb 9, 2017

Right on, basically start with 3 but go into the process knowing that its very possible I may need 5 or 6 to get to where I need, correct? How about a particular brand, any one that you've used and like better than others? Ive been looking at the mars aqua, viparspect, and ocean revive any thoughts about any of those 3? Thanks again for the info bud !

mcarroll · Feb 9, 2017

The most variety I think you can expect is for some of these generic fixtures to have different lenses and some to have different LED emitters. For better or worse, I don't know the particulars on any of the shoebox lights.

greg1786 · Feb 10, 2017

I have a new question for you. How hard would it be to DIY my own set of LEDS or if that's entirely to complicated how about getting these black box leds and DIYing them into something better maybe replace lenses, diodes, etc. I would say I'm moderately skilled in electrical and I've done some light work but none with LEDS. My father owned a residential construction company most of my life so I learned how to be very self sufficient and handy at a young age.

I've taken apart a few t5ho fixtures and rewired ballasts, retrofit the t5s into other fixtures etc but have not worled on am led light other than the tiny moonlight LEDS on the bottom of the aquatic life t5ho fixtures. I've soldered plenty of times in fact I have my own gun. I had to tear out and redo all the electric in my new home and I pulled all the wire and did all the work myself. I know its not the same as building an LED light but I wanted to give you some background on myself to see if you thought id be able to build my own or is it out my league completely? Thanks again

Sm51498 · Feb 11, 2017

I've been tempted to experiment with a black box with a diffuser on it to even the spread. The consensus on these boxes is that they have plenty of power but they spotlight too heavily. I feel you can use that extra power by placing a diffuser in front of the lights to provide more even coverage and better color mixing, much like on the phillips units. You could try that to achieve your spread so long as you aren't trying to penetrate a lot of water.

I don't yet have the funds for an experimental tank but I may try soon.

mcarroll · Feb 11, 2017

There a lots of different DIY's. From the one I've been building which I believe to be the most simple and perhaps least expensive, all the way to very complex DIY's that match the top of the line commercial fixtures in terms of features and maybe costs.

So if you're handy there are tons of plans already out there that you can follow.

Here's the plan I started with:
GU10 LED Build Thread (Chinese Ebay Lights)

Be warned that thread is o. l. d. so lots of photos have expired from folks' photobuckets...a google search will find lots of current examples though, and the rest of the thread is full of good stuff.

Gu10 bulbs cost around $1-$2. Sockets cost around 50¢.

ReefLEDLights · Feb 11, 2017

Have you considered something more high end...Changing out lights stresses the corals.

If you on a budget DIY can save you a lot. For around $300 you can easily build a fixture that is extreemely reliable and will replace the intensity of a 400 watt MH...

You want to choose the latest Cree 5 watt LEDs and Bin them for spectrum and intensity

Bill

greg1786 · Feb 15, 2017

The only reason I haven't really looked at the high end LEDS is because I don't want to spend a ton of money on features that I will never use. I don't have anything against the name brands by any means. I just like to keep things simple so I figured itd be a waste to have all the extra settings that I won't take advantage of.

I simply need a fixture that will allow me to control its intensity on both full spectrum and blue channels, control when each channel comes on and off, and one that is sufficient in spread and output for an sps dominated tank. If the higher end manufacturers have fixtures that are vastly better in light spread and output that you think I should be considering I am by all means open to the suggestion. I did play with my buddies radions and I have to say I did really like the ability to adjust each color individually and create your own color spectrum.

ReefLEDLights · Feb 15, 2017

greg1786 said:
The only reason I haven't really looked at the high end LEDS is because I don't want to spend a ton of money on features that I will never use. I don't have anything against the name brands by any means. I just like to keep things simple so I figured itd be a waste to have all the extra settings that I won't take advantage of.

I simply need a fixture that will allow me to control its intensity on both full spectrum and blue channels, control when each channel comes on and off, and one that is sufficient in spread and output for an sps dominated tank. If the higher end manufacturers have fixtures that are vastly better in light spread and output that you think I should be considering I am by all means open to the suggestion. I did play with my buddies radions and I have to say I did really like the ability to adjust each color individually and create your own color spectrum.

We specifically targeted 400 watt MH users with our XTC. With the Whites dimmed down and the Blue, Royal Blue and Ultra Violet at 100% the spectrum is very close to the 400 watt Radium MH with a little more PAR and a lot less heat and watts...

Not Everyone likes the look of the Radion so we added the RGB cluster to tweak the looks...Each of the 9 Led channels can be independently controlled to tweak the looks perfectly.

I've found with my personal Reef that a natural Sunrise and Sunset is Key...Quality Fixtures like the Radion and XTC have this...A sudden on off freaks out the fish...MH do not have the sudden on problem that may cause your favorite wrasse to jump...Primary Photosynthesis is only a few hours a day so max intensity is not needed the whole time plus its natural and what the corals evolved with...

I personally like a true Moon Phase...Not a moon light...I've noticed the fish behave differently under a full moon and its sorta cool to view the life late night...

Honestly I'm a bit of an LED snob and when I hear 3 watt LED I have to ask what manufacturer and what bin of LED??? Generic 3 watts are "like a box of chocolates" you never know what your going to get...That said many Generic fixtures grow coral well despite their non UL/CE listed components...The problem is, they generally fail sooner and any change in primary lighting is stressful to coral and clams...Anemones seem to adjust better but they are easier to feed. Just like a quality pump at twice the cost, its more often than not less expensive than replacing it several times...

I can tell you that as features go they are quite inexpensive to add on...Controllers that can easily dim the LEDs any way you desire are relatively inexpensive...For us the expensive things are the primary components... Paying a little more to get twice the performance and reliability adds up but in the end I know I will not have to worry about a replacement for at least 5 years and if something does fail its more often than not a simple swap out...

Spectrum Matters which is why I like binned LEDs...If your on a budget you can get the same performance and control of a premium fixture like the XTC or Radion by DIY...

Bill

greg1786 · Feb 16, 2017

Bill....first off thank you very much for taking the time to help me out. Your advice is greatly appreciated. I actually take some solace in reading that you are an LED snob. While I have a good bit of experience and knowledge in the hobby overall, LEDS are a new beast I'm trying to tackle. I am here hoping to soak up as much knowledge and opinion as possible from guys and girls like yourself.

I didn't realize until now that reefLEDlights is actually a brand of LEDS. I just checked out your guys fixtures on your web page. I really like what I've read so far about the products. I noticed you mentioned 5w LEDS and that you don't understand why ppl use 3w. Its been a few years since I've been active in the hobby and honestly I didn't even know 5w LEDS were available for a reef light. With a fixture fitted with 5w LEDS such as the XTC, would 3 of them be the correct number to cover a 6ft by 18" 125? I see it says they cover 24x24" and while I don't need that much width, according to those number 3 would be exactly right for 72".

What do you mean when you refer to LEDS as binned? I saw you mention that word a few times amongst your posts. If I were to go the DIY route, would you recommend going with 5w LEDS no matter what? I get the sense you arent very high on the 3 watt LEDS. Lights are extremely important to me as important as my skimmer and wave makers so I don't want to make any mistakes, especially by trying to save a few bucks.

ReefLEDLights · Feb 16, 2017

On my 72" x 36" x 30 " I have two XTC in the front and two DIY in the Back...

For a standard 72" Tank three would be a bit more than 3 x 400 Watt MH Replacement...

The Fact is 400 Watt Halides are still good but their heat and bulb replacement costs $... Especially when running your AC and or Chiller.

ReefLELDLights is a small company that manufactures the XTC in the USA and provides kits and parts to produce DIY Fixtires. We are not a brand but a trademark...

The Cree Cool White has 28 colour variations some being more yellow...The Royal Blue 450-460nm is very consequential...Not only does its intensity Bin help in growth but having it binned at D36 gives the corals an awesome actinic colour pop...We only choose the better Bins.

3 watt LEDs??? We offer the Cree XT-E 5 Watt and the 3 Watt XP-E2
for our primary LEDs...The main reason is we purchase domestically and are confident the LEDs we purchase are what we ordered...

Feel free to contact us with any questions...There are a lot of quality lights available and a lot we would not recommend.

Bill