Bayer pesticide as a coral dip...stop it! smh

[that Reef Guy]

I don't understand how the OP is unexpected, or how one would expect different. Of course it is toxic, and of course it decreases biodiversity. When I am dipping my corals I hope it decreases biodiversity and kill everything that is not the coral. Sure it is toxic to my corals, that is why I only keep on the solution for 15 minutes, rinse throughly. I also do constant water changes in my tank, and occasionally use granular activated carbon.

Bayer is not Toxic to Corals and is Actually the Least Stessful and Safest Dip for them.

I know many people who have left their Corals in Bayer for Hours on end because they forgot and nothing happened.

You can even Dip Smooth Skinned Acros (Red Dragon) with no worries. Pre-Bayer everyone said you could not dip that Coral in any Dip or it was Guaranteed to Die. Well Bayer Proved that Statement Wrong.

I have Literally Dipped Hundreds and Hundreds of Coral in Bayer with No Problems.

I have actually had Coral Die because I was too Tired after the Frag Swap to Dip them and was not going to just put them in my Tank.

I am not Risking Pests.

That is a Nightmare!

I cannot stress that enough.

It is No Joke!

To Tell People Not To Dip in Bayer is the Most Ridiculous thing I have ever Heard and is Very Detrimental to the Hobby.

More Pests will Spread.

No Coral will ever go into my Tank without an Aggressive Bayer Dip.

 

[that Reef Guy]

I have not used Bayer as my primary dip but have been debating it. I curious as to what ratios people are using for the dip? As with any type of dip we use there are certain precautions that must be adhered to and wanted to know what that is for the Bayer.

Some use a Little Some use a Lot.

I know people that say I just Pour it in until it Looks Like Milk.

Personally I use 4 Ounces in 1 Gallon of Saltwater for 15 Minutes.

Koralia 240 Powerhead.

Turkey Baster too.

 

[that Reef Guy]

The primary purpose of any coral dip is to kill and/or remove pests eg AEFW. One might presume it to therefore be toxic to provide the lethal dose to effect pests.

It is a long time since I reviewed Bayer. I believe it is destroyed/broken down by light and in water but more slowly in water.

It is a potent insecticide and should be used with caution and awareness. I certainly would prefer to use something less toxic to the environment and to potentially myself although I am unaware of another treatment equal in effect

Exactly, Even if some does get into your tank it will break down.

It will not be there forever.

 

[Taso1]

why not use one of the many coral dips available on the market that you can buy at an LFS?

 

[that Reef Guy]

As most are pointing out, the point is that any dip should be toxic enough to kill unwanted pests. Why else would we dip? Aren't they all random compounds?

This is a good discussion but the way the OP worded the title and only wants to respond to "research" makes the whole thing feel a bit like trolling.

I agree totally.

The Title will scare people from using Bayer which is Ridiculous because Bayer is one of the Greatest Advancements in the Hobby.

Pests are Everywhere.

Scaring People from using Bayer is very very harmful to the Hobby.

People will be more likely to get Pests get Frustrated and Quit.

Is that good for the Hobby?

I think Not.

And for those that do not quit the Pests Nightmare Spreads as more people will get Pests.

He brought this up because of Spawning Sun Coral and maybe he is right. I am not disputing that.

But how many people are trying to Spawn Sun Coral here - Not Many.

The Greater Population is going to take this Thread the Wrong Way.

The Title needs to be changed to say "How to Successfully Spawn Sun Coral"

NOT "Stop using Bayer"

 

[that Reef Guy]

Bayer saved my tank from an AEFW infestation and total shut down of my tank.

See what I Mean!

 

[morpheas]

why not use one of the many coral dips available on the market that you can buy at an LFS?

That's a good point. Besides the effectiveness factor which I am in no position to judge (don't know if it's better or not) I suspect the price. 1 oz of coral rx is ~$24 where 1QT of the bayer is <$10... There might be more reasons (for instance might be more potent) but that's one that comes to mind right off the bat.

 

[that Reef Guy]

The force of that mic drop is still causing ripples on the surface of my tank.

LOL

 

[that Reef Guy]

I think that the fact there is years worth of documented success should be evidence enough, yes? That the coral remains pest free after the dip is beneficial, yes? And that MANY of whom have used it for many years without detriment to the coral AND inhabitants of their tank itself is and should be evidence enough, yes?

Agreed.

It works that is all I care about.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

why not use one of the many coral dips available on the market that you can buy at an LFS?

Besides the points that @morpheas already brought up, many of us have actually found Bayer to be far less harsh on corals than dips like Revive or Coral Rx (I've used all 3). Furthermore, there are no real regulations or standards required for things sold in the aquarium industry, so the point that it is "made for corals" actually doesn't mean that any product is actually held accountable to any industry standards. Therefore, the made for corals stuff doesn't meet any qualifications that Bayer insecticide doesn't. That does not mean that these products are untrustworthy (please don't misunderstand me to be saying that), but rather that there have been no required standards enforced on them to prove that they are better or even as good as Bayer.

 

[that Reef Guy]

Mdbannister said it best.

I know a high end coral supplier locally to me. They dip every single coral in bayer. Thats hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coral that has been dipped in bayer that continues to be sold and thrive in all of their return customer's tanks.

I recently broke down a tank and dipped every coral before placing into my new system. I had a few that were not doing well at all (part of the reason for a conplete overhaul.) Of all the healthy to unhealthy coral i dipped, I lost nothing. All my corals have shown drastic inprovement in color and growth. Which is also dually noticed in my daily calc and alk uptake.

I'll continue to use what has shown a proven track record of success.

My understanding is that an insecticide attacks the central nervous system. Corals do not have a central nervous system, which is why they are unaffected. Obviously the same can not be said for inverts and fish.

I also know said high end supplier.

And they are doing things the right way and passing along Amazing and Healthy Corals to their Customers.

Everybody should care for their Corals the way they do.

If you do not Dip on Bayer then you are doing a disservice both to yourself and anybody you may sell or trade your Corals too.

 

[fishboys]

I've continually pointed to the thousands of observations made by other reefers who've used this repeatedly (some for over a decade) with continual success and no fails, but for some reason you choose to ignore that. In any case (even if you think there is reason to doubt those observations), it's a misrepresentation to say that nothing has been presented.

I would say tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people have used this. I am going guess millions of corals have been soaked in Bayer at one time or another.

 

[that Reef Guy]

I just throw mine over the fence into the neighbor's yard.

LOL!

 

[that Reef Guy]

why not use one of the many coral dips available on the market that you can buy at an LFS?

1. Not as Effective as Bayer
2. Other Dips are More Stressful on Coral
3. Bayer is Cheaper

No Reason Not to use Bayer.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

You lost me there too buddy. First off, the theory is that Bayer is OK to use. Why? The experiment conducted by hundreds (if not thousands) of reefers show no ill effect when used within the experiment parameters i.e. short term exposure, low concentration, specimen flushing with tank water.

Aaaaaand no. In a couple minutes of reading, even on this forum, I documented 4 losses that were deemed "a mystery" but not bayer's fault.

 

[cb684]

Bayer is not Toxic to Corals and is Actually the Least Stessful and Safest Dip for them.

I know many people who have left their Corals in Bayer for Hours on end because they forgot and nothing happened.

You can even Dip Smooth Skinned Acros (Red Dragon) with no worries. Pre-Bayer everyone said you could not dip that Coral in any Dip or it was Guaranteed to Die. Well Bayer Proved that Statement Wrong.

I have Literally Dipped Hundreds and Hundreds of Coral in Bayer with No Problems.

I have actually had Coral Die because I was too Tired after the Frag Swap to Dip them and was not going to just put them in my Tank.

I am not Risking Pests.

That is a Nightmare!

I cannot stress that enough.

It is No Joke!

To Tell People Not To Dip in Bayer is the Most Ridiculous thing I have ever Heard and is Very Detrimental to the Hobby.

More Pests will Spread.

No Coral will ever go into my Tank without an Aggressive Bayer Dip.

If you read my other post you will see that what you said is exactly my point.

But, it is a stretch to say that it is not toxic. I agree with you that most of the smooth skinned acros do better with Bayer than with other dips. And I too have dipped my share of frags with no problems, and have forgotten a frag in the dipping solution for several hours without killing it. Now, I must say that the frag was not happy, browned up, and stayed like that for about 3 months.

So, like most of the people after the dip I rinse thoroughly. If it is not able to directly kill the frag (which I believe it is), it would for sure be toxic for other inhabitants of the tank.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Bayer is not Toxic to Corals and is Actually the Least Stessful and Safest Dip for them.

3 questions.
'Bayer is not toxic to corals'
1. How do you know it's not toxic to corals? (they have a nervous system and this is a neurotoxin, please describe how the corals negate this)
'Bayer is the least stressful'
2. Do you have a recording of experiments that describes the test you conducted that compared identical coral frags and their dip process leading to this?
'Bayer is the safest dip'
3. I believe question 2 covers this

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Agreed.

It works that is all I care about.

I'm sure there's many compounds that work that don't kill the coral. I know from seeing it first hand tap water is an awesome dip. But this still doesn't cover the negatives that can happen, let alone statistics towards chance of death or other factors aside from death.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

If you do not Dip on Bayer then you are doing a disservice both to yourself and anybody you may sell or trade your Corals too.

So how do I interpret this:
The LFS that dips bayer, and the majority of the time I go in, the corals look horrible, dull, and abunch of necrosis all over quite regularly.
Or the LFS that dips RX, the corals look better than the other place, colors are present but not strong, but only rarely has necrosis all over.

So are you going to admit it's possible that bayer could have something to do with it, or are you going to keep your mind closed, and deny the possibility? (and thus assert your place in scientific reasoning)

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I would say tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people have used this. I am going guess millions of corals have been soaked in Bayer at one time or another.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q="bayer"+"coral+dip"

1500 hits doesn't support that guess.. Maybe there's just not enough people relaying their stellar success!