You should have a very strong pump - the more flow the better for both aeration and nitrification. It is a closed system - the contact time at every single pass does not matter - the contact time for 24 hours will be the same.
Sincerely Lasse
Bio balls...a thing of the past?
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Sincerely Lasse
ichthyoid
Active Member
Trickle type filters (your curlers) are excellent for housing bacteria which convert ammonia to nitrate. They are widely used in public waste water treatment plants.
The issue then is what to do with the nitrate? That is where an anaerobic carbon fed (methanol) denitrification filter really shines. These are also used in waste water plants.
The methanol type filter units take a long time (and patience) to bring online, but once tuned correctly your water quality will really shine!
In fact, after a while you may find you need to add strontium nitrate to keep nitrates above zero. This will also help precipitate phosphate out of solution, resulting in strontium phosphate.
Both excess nitrogen & phosphorous end up being exported by regularly shaking off the resulting bacterial mat from the eggcrate used in the anaerobic reaction chamber. Once tuned to balance the nutrient levels, the system pretty much runs on cruise control.
Here, for an idea of how it works-
The issue then is what to do with the nitrate? That is where an anaerobic carbon fed (methanol) denitrification filter really shines. These are also used in waste water plants.
The methanol type filter units take a long time (and patience) to bring online, but once tuned correctly your water quality will really shine!
In fact, after a while you may find you need to add strontium nitrate to keep nitrates above zero. This will also help precipitate phosphate out of solution, resulting in strontium phosphate.
Both excess nitrogen & phosphorous end up being exported by regularly shaking off the resulting bacterial mat from the eggcrate used in the anaerobic reaction chamber. Once tuned to balance the nutrient levels, the system pretty much runs on cruise control.
Here, for an idea of how it works-
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Karen00
2500 Club Member
Very nice! I will definitely check out your build thread!acrylic extruded tubes and colored acrylic sheets. I have been cutting,gluing and making all I can to save cash. Even made two sumps.
They are 24x28x15 high, race track design. one sump intake is on right and the other intake on left.
Check out my build thread to see more...
Thanks
Belgian Anthias
Valuable Member
If nitrate is used as a nitrogen source growth rates are much lower as when ammonia is used, this also influences the calcification rate. This is normal for all organisms able to use inorganic nitrogen directly, bacteria, algae, etc. A coral is heterotrophic and growth is influences by its holobiont including the symbiodinium. ref : MB Anthias 2019
It has been shown high nitrogen availability ( which is not the same as a high nitrate level) may support high growth rates during periods of high growth ( increasing temp, high DOC availability, high C/N ratio) and create bleaching due to phosphorus starvation,. ref: MB CMF De Haes 2020
That is why I prefer nitrogen to be the growth limiting factor and not phosphorus, also a reason to keep the carrying capacity as high as possible which included the formation of nitrate. As explained using nitrate slows down the growth rate and limits the risk for phosphorus starvation.
A study of Shantz and Burkepile gives a different view of the effect of nutrients on coral calcification and growth.
The Shantz and Burkepile study is based on the following data: We found 26 studies with 101 separate experiments of 17 coral species that met all of our criteria for the analysis of nutrient load on coral growth. Studies reporting the change in mass per unit volume of whole colonies over time were used in our analysis as measures of both calcification rates and skeleton density. As a result, we were able to obtain 59 independent measures of calcification from 21 studies, 37 measures of skeletal growth rates from 14 studies, and 19 measures of skeletal density from 5 studies. To assess the impact of nutrient enrichment on Symbiodinium and photosynthesis, we identified 21 studies involving 107 separate experiments from 13 coral species. We found 27 experiments from 8 studies that assessed how nutrient input changes chlorophyll density within Symbiodinium, 38 experiments from 15 studies examining the density of Symbiodinium, 27 experiments from 11 studies examining chlorophyll per density of coral surfaces, and 15 experiments from 6 studies investigating the gross photosynthetic capacity of corals. (Shantz And Burkepile 2014) ref: MB CMF De Haes 2019 Anthias 2020
Getting true the references of this publication of Ronald Osinga en Co may be a good introduction into the world of corral growth.
Belgian Anthias
Valuable Member
Research has shown P enrichment in general does INCREASE possible calcification rates of corals.
A study (2014) by Shantz and Burkepile deviated from the standard adopted by many reefers for many years to keep nitrate and phosphate as low as possible as it was assumed that increased presence would hinder calcification of corals.
Individual studies suggest complex, even conflicting, relationships between nutrient availability, coral physiology and coral growth. Here they used meta-analysis to establish general patterns of the influence of nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P) on coral growth and photobiology. Overall, they found that N over a wide range of concentrations reduced coral calcification by an average of 11%, but improved aspects of coral photobiology, such as the rate of photosynthesis. In contrast, P enrichment increased the mean calcification rate by 9%, probably due to direct effects on the calcification process, but had minimal effect on coral photobiology. (ShantzAndBurkepile2014) ref: MB CMF de Haes 2017-2019
Maximizing calcification rates in an aquarium will lead to unnatural corral formation due to the unnatural difference in light intensity and the formation of more porous and fragile structures, which has been shown by corals living in a P enriched environment .
My opinion it is NOT pretty clear higher levels of P do hinder calcification. Most problems are caused due to insufficient P availability in the coral holobiont during periods of increased growth rates in combination with a high C/N ratio. The phoshate level in the water column is not representative for P availability there where the action is and where growth rates are logaritmic . This depends on the possible water exhange and refresh rate and for the organism the rate inorganic nutrients can pass the celmembranes. In general a coral is able to manage growth rates in it's own holobiont by excreting mucus . A reason to keep DOC availability in the water colomn as low as possible and leave it to the coral.
Belgian Anthias
Valuable Member
How the use of bioballs is connected with a "sulfur denitrator"?
Some info about BADES. ( Biological Autotrophic Denitrification making use of Elemental Sulfur)
One does NOT need reactors for exporting nitrate making use of elemental sulfur. Sulfur denitrators work fine if properly managed. Very effective to lower a high nitrate level. In a lot of known cases such reactors became problematic due to mismanagement once the level was descending, often due to nitrate starvation followed by sulfate reduction. There is NO need for targeting a 0 ppm effluent which limits the risk for nitrate starvation in the reactor.There is NO need for keeping such reactors in "anoxic conditions" as the BADES process workfs fine having an effuent still containing 2ppm DO! The flow should be manageable in function of the nitrate level. Also, Sulfur denitrators need enough nutrients to function properly which is often not the case in a reef aquarium where phosphate is considered an enemy
It is NOT possible to lower a high nitrate level using a sulfur denitrator and targeting a 0 ppm effluent if only very little phosphorus is available in the water column. Often it is not possible to obtain or maintain a 0 ppm effluent and users often make the wrong decision to limit the flow even more in an attempt to achieve the impossible goal in present circumstances. Just a few of the many management problems which may occur using a sulfur denitrator and keeping it anoxic is a target. Mixing the sulfur substrate with shell-grit has the advantage always enough phosphorus, minerals, and carbonate is available there where the action is. The more nitrate is removed the more acids are produced , the more calcium carbonate media is dissolved. If separate reactors are used for sulfur and for calcium carbonate media the BADES process can only use what is already present in the in-fluent.
A sulfur denitrator in which the flow is managed in function of the nitrate level may be called a BADES-reactor, if only to indicate the difference in use.
About BADES a lot op research has been taken place and a lot of practical experience ( about 25 years) managing marine aquaria .
One must be aware nitrate is essential for the biological balance in a closed environment.
Exporting nitrate does NOT increase the carrying capacity. Producing nitrate does.
The nutrient balance can easily be restored by AAM ( Active Algae Management) which also re-creates a balance between consumers and producers. ref: MB CMF De Haes 2017-2021
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Belgian Anthias
Valuable Member
Nobody I think, I was looking for a link with the question: Bioballs, a thing of the past?
A sulfur denitrator or BADES-reactor may be supplemental to bio-balls or any other nitrifying bio-filter, placed behind it in the filtration chain. One must be aware in the case most already produced nitrate is exported not enough nitrogen may be available for growth taking up other inorganic building materials already produced by remineralization,
A BADES bio-reactor is able to replace bioballs as simultanious nitrificatioin and denitrification is promoted by which +- 80% of the in the reactor or refugium produced nitrate may be exported from the system, without striving for oxygen-free conditions, which guarantees more safe and reliable use.The conditions for autotropic denitrification (low oxygen zones) are created by the aerobic remineralization and nitrification rate which is easily managed by BOD .
Managing nitrate production in a closed system starts with the food source protein content or C/N ratio!
I wish you a lot of success with your BADES-system!
Duncan62
Valuable Member
Bacterial population will match bioload. Bioballs are a good way to seed a new system.So my 90 gallon tank I bought used came with a. Sump that was running bio balls. Seeing that I was just starting up the tank I used them and then later added maxspect bio blocks and bio spheres. What I’m wondering is can you have too much bio media? And does anyone even use bio balls anymore? I read a book recently that said some people had better coral growth removing the bio balls? So are they a thing of the past?
Here’s the bio media I added to the sump:
Belgian Anthias
Valuable Member
Bio-ball, bio-media? What is it? When one puts something in a life medium as is an aquarium it becomes bio-fooled or better, bio-media, live rock, live plastic, live anything. Plastic balls as substrate for a bio-filter may be ideal for a pond filter as the filter will not clog easily. They are not the best filter-media for a marine bio-filter.
Back in the seventies we used normal cheap sand ( bio-sand?) which provided a much higher filtration capacity. The disadvantage was the same as when using commercialized plastic balls, all processes, remineralization, nitrification, denitrification only could make use of what was present in the water column and processes had a huge effect on water stability, alkalinity, pH, etc. Replacing the sand by calcium carbonate loaded media, shell grit, aragonite sand, had a huge positive effect on water stability as the bacteria and archaea not only could make use of what was present in the water column but also make use of the provided substrate, the produced acids dissolving calcium carbonate and nitrifying bacteria and archaea may use by the substrate released carbonate as a carbon source instead having to retrieve it all from alkalinity present in the water column, by which nitrification had no longer a huge effect on system alkalinity and a stabel pH was no longer related to the nitrate production. ( Back then we had no cheap nitrate test kits and expensive tests and water changes where decided based on the period needed between essential pH corrections)
The provided substrate on which biofilms may grow are very important for the final result, positive or negative.
What technology are we talking about when talking about maxspect stuf?
Back in the seventies we used normal cheap sand ( bio-sand?) which provided a much higher filtration capacity. The disadvantage was the same as when using commercialized plastic balls, all processes, remineralization, nitrification, denitrification only could make use of what was present in the water column and processes had a huge effect on water stability, alkalinity, pH, etc. Replacing the sand by calcium carbonate loaded media, shell grit, aragonite sand, had a huge positive effect on water stability as the bacteria and archaea not only could make use of what was present in the water column but also make use of the provided substrate, the produced acids dissolving calcium carbonate and nitrifying bacteria and archaea may use by the substrate released carbonate as a carbon source instead having to retrieve it all from alkalinity present in the water column, by which nitrification had no longer a huge effect on system alkalinity and a stabel pH was no longer related to the nitrate production. ( Back then we had no cheap nitrate test kits and expensive tests and water changes where decided based on the period needed between essential pH corrections)
The provided substrate on which biofilms may grow are very important for the final result, positive or negative.
What technology are we talking about when talking about maxspect stuf?
Thank you @Lasse so much for taking the time to detail the filter design in the original post.
I found a tall 4" acrylic media cup with a slotted bottom on BRS that could work for this filter however it might not be big enough depending on the volume of the tank. I'm short on free time so I recently purchased the Bashsea Bio Reactor that @CoralNerd shared above. It's currently on the kitchen counter setup in a closed circuit config while I cycle the media with KZ Zeobak and Dr. Tims ammonium chloride. Although the media is submerged hopefully the large air pump will supply the nitrifying bacteria with enough oxygen to produce similar results to what Lasse describes. I'm hoping this will result in some nitrate production so that I don't have to use additives to achieve a non-zero NO3 value.
I found a tall 4" acrylic media cup with a slotted bottom on BRS that could work for this filter however it might not be big enough depending on the volume of the tank. I'm short on free time so I recently purchased the Bashsea Bio Reactor that @CoralNerd shared above. It's currently on the kitchen counter setup in a closed circuit config while I cycle the media with KZ Zeobak and Dr. Tims ammonium chloride. Although the media is submerged hopefully the large air pump will supply the nitrifying bacteria with enough oxygen to produce similar results to what Lasse describes. I'm hoping this will result in some nitrate production so that I don't have to use additives to achieve a non-zero NO3 value.
That reactor looks like a Kaldnes Moving bed biofilm reactor (MBBR). It is a very effective nitrification equipment. IMO as efficient as a trickle filter. It is often used in fish farms. It will produce NO3 - probably rather much. However - I would use some of the only nitrification bacteria additives in the start like Dr Tims One & only. Zeobak is - as i understand - a mixture of heterotrophic and autotrophic bacteria + DOC - but with this design of the filter - it will probably work too - the thicker heterotrophic bacteria will probably be washed away and become good food for your corals.
The kaldnes process is effective. i have used it in two indoors fish farms with succes.
Sincerely Lasse
Harold999
Well-Known Member
A good bio filter kills parasites. To achieve that you need fine materials where the water is forced through (filter mats with different coarses), not flowing around like ceramic pipes and blocks. The latter won't kill parasites.
That´s a type of mechanical filter in my eyes - a biological filter promotes microbes to grow and form biofilms. If a filtermath is in use - it need to be rather coarse (10 ppt) combined with a fast flow through it in order to work as a good biological filter.
Sincerely Lasse
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