Blue flasher wrasse shipping stress or something else?

[Crashjack]

I got a Blue Flasher wrasse and a couple of yellow watchman gobies on Friday, shipped from an online retailer. As the wrasse was temperature acclimating in the bag, I noticed it appeared catatonic if not dead. I messed with the bag and he "woke up". When I got him in the QT, he swam into a PVC elbow and then went back to this catatonic state. I left him be for maybe 15-20 minutes and then got a little worried so I slowly moved the elbow. The fish swam away. I checked on him later, and he was swimming. The next day, he was back in that state, propped up next to the sponge filter. I let him stay there for well over an hour. After that, I touched his tail with a small wooden spatula I use for tank maintenance. When I touched his tail, he "woke up" and swam away. When I checked on him that evening, he was laying dead on the bottom of the QT. My question is, was this likely just extreme shipping stress or possibly something else?

 

[leahfiish]

Sorry for your loss.
It's impossible to say for sure but shipping stress probably at least played a part of it. Wrasses do tend to act strange while in qt, especially if it's relatively bare, and it typically does take at least a few days for them to settle in.
That being said, it doesn't mean that other maladies weren't also impacting it. Being reclusive and avoiding light can be a symptom of velvet. But if that is the only symptom I wouldn't just jump to that conclusion.
FYI in the future I would also avoid poking him and just turn the lights off and leave them be as best you can.

 

[Crashjack]

Sorry for your loss.
It's impossible to say for sure but shipping stress probably at least played a part of it. Wrasses do tend to act strange while in qt, especially if it's relatively bare, and it typically does take at least a few days for them to settle in.
That being said, it doesn't mean that other maladies weren't also impacting it. Being reclusive and avoiding light can be a symptom of velvet. But if that is the only symptom I wouldn't just jump to that conclusion.
FYI in the future I would also avoid poking him and just turn the lights off and leave them be as best you can.

Oddly, day 1 he seemed to prefer the light. I left the light off for most the day and didn't see him then when I turned the light on and left on for an hour or so, that is when I saw him swimming and acting normal. I felt like I needed to touch him because I thought there was at least a 50% chance he was dead. The two gobies are in the QT as well so I didn't want an ammonia spike.

 

[Humblefish]

How long was the bag open before you put them in the QT? Any redness around the gills? Did SG of the bag match your QT?

 

[Crashjack]

How long was the bag open before you put them in the QT? Any redness around the gills? Did SG of the bag match your QT?

The fish actually exhibited the behavior before the bag was opened. When I opened the bag, it might have taken me 30 minutes to get the fish in the water. The salinity was lower than I was told so I had to correct the QT. Luckily I already had RO in a bucket on "standby", but I decided to remove some water from the QT to give me a little more play if I overshot. I'm handicapped so everything I do takes longer than it would take anybody else. Once I got the salinity to match, I removed the water from the bag and dumped the fish in.

I didn't notice any redness. Here are some pics when I pulled the dead fish out.

 

[ngoodermuth]

It sounds like you did everything right, most likely injured itself somehow during collection or shipping. Unfortunately, it happens sometimes

 

[Crashjack]

It sounds like you did everything right, most likely injured itself somehow during collection or shipping. Unfortunately, it happens sometimes

Yeah, the odd thing was that it looked sort of like seizures. The fish would freeze, look rigid, and even do so bent (e.g. head and tail pointing in the same general direction). I've never kept wrasses before as when I was in the hobby years ago, I had no cover so avoided jumpers. I know wrasses often don't ship well so was trying to determine if it might have been shipping related or something else. I'm going to try wrasses again so wanted to know if this was somewhat normal or very abnormal.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I've received 7 wrasses in the mail this year, one arrived in bad shape and died within 24 hours and two arrived fine but have died since from unrelated issues (bacterial infection and possible aggression from an existing wrasse)

Fairy wrasses are a bit more touchy than halichoerus or even leopards in my experience, but I wouldn't say arriving in bad shape is the "norm". Just happens from time to time.

 

[4FordFamily]

Fairy wrasses are a bit more touchy than halichoerus or even leopards in my experience, but I wouldn't say arriving in bad shape is the "norm". Just happens from time to time.

Agree.

I think shipping and collection stress played a role. I wouldn't drip acclimate fish, either. I add to buckets and pour little amounts of water over 10-20 mins to reduce ammonia burn, personally

 

[Crashjack]

The one I lost was a flasher. I just ordered two fairies from DD. My QT salinity should be close and if not, I can add Amquel to the bag to help with ammonia (I called LA, and they said their fish aren't shipped in copper but sometimes in Methylene Blue). Per the Kordon website, Amquel will remove Methylene Blue, but won't create any toxicity.

I think shipping and collection stress played a role. I wouldn't drip acclimate fish, either. I add to buckets and pour little amounts of water over 10-20 mins to reduce ammonia burn, personally

With the buckets, do you just pour the fish/water in the bucket and add small amounts of tank water instead of adding water to the bag?

 

[4FordFamily]

With the buckets, do you just pour the fish/water in the bucket and add small amounts of tank water instead of adding water to the bag?

Yes that's correct

 

[ngoodermuth]

With the buckets, do you just pour the fish/water in the bucket and add small amounts of tank water instead of adding water to the bag?

Personally, I think the way you did it would be ok with one change. Instead of opening the bag (and starting the ammonia death-clock) take a needle and poke a small hole below the water line. Put a few drops on your refractometer and cover the hole with scotch tape. Then, you aren't actually allowing oxygen into the bag, and you can let it float/temp acclimate while you adjust your QT at your leisure.

Once the temp and salinity match, you take the fish out of the bag (or strain into a colander) and plop him right into the QT. No further acclimation needed.

 

[Crashjack]

Ok... deja vu all over again. I received a couple of fairy wrasses from DD this morning. Luckily, my c. flavidorsalis (I think that is which one it is) was swimming around in the bag, and appears fine in the QT. He initially stayed in a small area between the side of the QT and a couple of pvc elbows but is now swimming around the tank and looks fine. My c. rubeus (again, I think that is which one it is) exhibited the exact same behavior as my blue flasher. You couldn't see either fish until the bag was opened. When I opened the bag, the rubeus appeared stiff at a roughly 45 degree angle. I lifted the bag from the bottom, and he moved so I knew he was alive. When I added him to the tank (immediately upon opening because the salinity matched), he blew around stiff in the current for a second or two and then lumbered about 12" and resumed the "death position" leaning next to the base of a pvc elbow. It has been a good :45 minutes and he doesn't appear to have budged. How long should I wait to check on him?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Can you take a video? New fairy wrasses do tend to just "sit around" at first, and won't swim much for the first day or so. My instinct would be to make sure the room is quiet and dim and just leave them be for today.

 

[Crashjack]

Can you take a video? New fairy wrasses do tend to just "sit around" at first, and won't swim much for the first day or so. My instinct would be to make sure the room is quiet and dim and just leave them be for today.

Thanks for the quick response. I needed to arrange my elbows back to where they were so I moved the elbow the fish was leaning against and the fish swam. It went to a more traditional spooked fish position... sort of nestled under the pvc where before, it was leaning on the pvc but out in the open. Checked a short while ago and saw one wrasse swimming pretty normal. Now, the problematic wrasse is laying around, blowing in the current, and then swimming against the current, and then repeating that over and over. The fish is staying in the same area. In other words, it isn't blowing around the whole tank. This is occurring in one area so he has the strength to at least stay put. Part of my problem is that my QT is a Sterilite tote and is on the ground. It also has a clear top that gets covered with condensation. It is hard to view fish without removing the lid and even then, they are hard to see when they are hiding. I'm handicapped and operate out of a wheelchair so this is the best setup for me but has some disadvantages.

Here are some pics of him laying down now. I've left all lights off and haven't disturbed the tank since I rearranged the pvc.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I can't see too much, but he looks like he's in the "I'm freaked out about this place" position. I wouldn't worry too much yet.

Just curious, do you have an ammonia badge in there?

 

[Crashjack]

Just curious, do you have an ammonia badge in there?

Yes. It reads zero ammonia and the sponge filter is well-conditioned.

 

[Crashjack]

Well, twice I've gone to remove a dead fish and twice that fish has come back to life. In my experience, a fish laying on the bottom that doesn't move at all, pretty much out in the open, for over an hour is a dead fish. My wife and I are going out tonight so he's got another 4+ hours before I try to pronounce him dead again. It isn't that I have such an urge to mess with him. I just don't want a dead fish fouling the tank for the other 3 fish.