^^ This. Mixing an ammonia reducer with copper increases the toxicity tenfold. Seems to be more of an issue with ionic copper (Cupramine) than chelated copper (Coppersafe, Copper Power).
Blue Jaw, Ich and more . . . pics to help
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^^ This. Mixing an ammonia reducer with copper increases the toxicity tenfold. Seems to be more of an issue with ionic copper (Cupramine) than chelated copper (Coppersafe, Copper Power).
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Mini Coop
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The quarantine tank is doing well. It is very very cloudy, and the ammonia levels are still high. 1.0 ppm. The fish that are in it have not shown any signs of ick since being transferred, so I have not been in a huge rush to treat them with copper. I was figuring it would be better to get that tank stabilized first. Do I need to add some kind of filter pad along with the sponge filter?
For the main tank, all of the levels look great. And I am going to spend this weekend reading up more on how to let it cycle and make sure that everything is set up perfectly when I add fish at Christmas time. In the meantime, I appear to have had another algae bloom. Brown algae springing up all over the sides of the glass, in the sand on the rocks. I'm assuming that is normal for not just a beginner tank but when A dynamic has changed like removing all the fish.
The weird thing is when I went to scrape the algae off of the sides with my magnet, I noticed all of these little tiny white things. They look like a little lice, and there are thousands of them! They are crawling all over the sides of the tank. Could be's be copepods? I did get a little bit of water rinsed with rocks from a friend to try to develop copepods because I wanted to get a Manderin But I thought they would only be visible in the dark with a flashlight. Not in the light. Any thoughts? I have attempted to attach a picture, but my phone won't focus on the little bugs. You can see them in the foreground though.
For the QT you need a filter with bio-media capable of housing nitrifying bacteria, which will break down the ammonia. I recommend either an Aquaclear or Marineland "Bio-wheel" HOB (hang on back) filter. Next you'll need a "bacteria in a bottle" product (such as Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria) to seed the filter with live bacteria.
In the meantime, it is absolutely imperative to keep the ammonia down to 0 ppm. Even slight traces of ammonia can burn a fish’s gills; prolonged exposure will damage the liver and kidneys, usually resulting in death within a few days. Do daily water changes (if necessary), or you do have the option of using an ammonia reducer up to when you start dosing copper.
In the meantime, it is absolutely imperative to keep the ammonia down to 0 ppm. Even slight traces of ammonia can burn a fish’s gills; prolonged exposure will damage the liver and kidneys, usually resulting in death within a few days. Do daily water changes (if necessary), or you do have the option of using an ammonia reducer up to when you start dosing copper.
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Mini Coop
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Ok. I'm on it. Ugh. I am really trying my best here....did ammonia reducer - mixing water now. Ordering new filter. Ammonia down to .25ppm. I'll check again in the morning.
Any idea what the "bugs" in the main tank are?
Pods; the larger ones are amphipods, smaller ones are copepods. Their populations often explode in a fallow tank without any predators to eat them.
You can place the carbon bag on top of the sponge, but most of the water will just go around it.
What size QT do you have? I'll recommend a filter for you.
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Mini Coop
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I have a 20 gallon. I was just researching the aqua clear...sponge in the bottom with the bio max on top of it? I'm attaching a pic of what I have now. It has quite a bit of room in the back. Right now I just have a black sponge that I seeded for a couple of days (I know not long enough but I had to use it) and the blue part in the front is an ammonia reducer sponge type thing. Not sure if I can use what I have and put something else in the back?
If not I will do whatever I need to do. These 4 are doing well and I intend to keep it that way.
The black sponge you have on that filter should get the job done. You just need one of those bacteria in a bottle products I mentioned to seed it with more live bacteria. Also remember once you use an ammonia reducer in QT, you will start getting false positives with most liquid ammonia test kits. For this reason I rely upon the Seachem ammonia alert badge for active monitoring:
If you find that powerfilter isn't getting the job done, I recommend either one of these as a replacement:
AquaClear 70
Marineland Penguin 200gph
I personally use the Aquaclear, but there's nothing wrong with the Bio-wheel. Don't know why the Aquaclear is more than twice as much.
AquaClear 70
Marineland Penguin 200gph
I personally use the Aquaclear, but there's nothing wrong with the Bio-wheel. Don't know why the Aquaclear is more than twice as much.
MasterBacon
Well-Known Member
The other reason you feed the DT during the fallow period is to maintain your bacteria population so when it's time to reintroduce your fish you don't have to start a new cycle.
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Mini Coop
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Thank you! I am! I have about 25 hermit crabs, one halloween crab, a serpent star fish and about 20 margarita snails and 3 turbo snails in the DT as well. So, I am feeding about 1/4 cube of shrimp 3x a week, a few pellets on the days I don't do shrimp. Does that sound right?
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Mini Coop
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If you find that powerfilter isn't getting the job done, I recommend either one of these as a replacement:
AquaClear 70
Marineland Penguin 200gph
I personally use the Aquaclear, but there's nothing wrong with the Bio-wheel. Don't know why the Aquaclear is more than twice as much.
So, use the bigger filter, not the 5-20 gallon? (thats what I kind of thought).
Should I put a bio bag (plain with no carbon) behind the sponge to try and filter a bit more of the "junk" clouding the water?
I will order some of the bacteria and the ammonia monitor immediately. I just pour whatever the bottle says directly onto the black sponge, correct?
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Mini Coop
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@Humblefish Thank you for helping me so much on a friday night. I seriously need to reach through the computer and give you a hug!
melypr1985
totally addicted
You can take the sponge and put it in a bowl. Pour the whole bottle (or just half depending on how big the bottle is. let's not get carried away lol) anyway, pour the bottle over the sponge in the bowl and let it soak for a couple hours. Then put the sponge back in the filter and pour the water from the bowl in with it.
Sistawolf
Valuable Member
I have said the same thing.. @Humblefish and @melypr1985 need some serious gifts for all of their time and help they give us newbies..
We all make stupid mistakes.. in life and in marinelife.. that's how we live and learn.. it does suck to hear that fish have suffered because of lack of knowledge but none of us go into this hobby thinking we are going to spend tons of money on fish.. to turn around and take a loan out for a fish medicine cabinet to save them.. only to lose some or all of them.
Don't beat yourself up.. your doing the right thing by bringing your questions and needs to r2r.. I honestly don't know what I would do without this forum.. you will run across one or two "meanys" but for the most part.. 98% of the members are completely understanding and knowledgeable.. again the help of these two is all you need.. meaning I wouldn't ask anyone else in your local lfs or any other forum because everyone has an opinion of how to do things and will only confuse you..
Start from scratch and let these guys and members of r2r lead you in the right direction. No one minds questions so ask away.. everyone here would rather questions be asked before anyone second guesses themselves and makes the wrong moves.
Keep in mind that ich can look like it comes and goes but it's more than likely there.. and better to be safe than sorry..
If you must use seachem copper.. please be advised that an api test will not test this copper. It must be a seachem copper test kit to get accurate readings..
the ammonia badge @Humblefish told you about.. they are awesome.. when I had my fish in qt.. I did a 25% water change everyday and would test my copper to make sure I had the levels correct.. when you take out water your copper will decrease as well.. and if not stable it will not work properly..
I'm happy you are sticking with the hobby.. if it's a dream by Gosh you deserve a nice tank and everyone here will help get you there.. your water most definitely must be rodi water. Look online for used ones. And just buy new filters.. you will need test kits for it as well..
this hobby is overwhelming.. but as @Humblefish has told me many times.. patience is key!! But nothing's is more rewarding than to start seeing everything thrive because you found patience and your tank is running perfect!
And I can't wait until your posting pics of your awesome tank running like it should be!
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Mini Coop
Valuable Member
Fabulous! The sponge I have is very pourous. Almost plastic fibers type. Should I put a thicker sponge (like an actual sponge) maybe with the biomax bag of things like was in the aqua clear filter?
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Mini Coop
Valuable Member
Thank you. I'm determined to save the babies I still have. I won't start copper treatment for a couple of weeks until I get the ammonia levels stable. I don't want to stress them with too much at once. And they have to be in for 80 days, /
So I have time. And yes. I have an RO system now.
Thanks for your kind words. I'm excited to get this going!
melypr1985
totally addicted
The black one will probably be fine. i would only worry about that small of a power filter being able to run enough water through it to keep up with the bio load. That's not something you really need to worry about right this second. I'd say try this one, the way we described, then decide if it's working well enough for your needs. You'll want to give it time to finish out it's cycle though.
I prefer to use an oversized Aquaclear HOB, because you always have the option of dialing it down if its too much flow. Your tang & foxface would probably appreciate the greater flow, whereas you'd probably need to turn it down for smaller fish and butterflyfish (for example).
When seeding the sponge... Turn the filter off for 2-3 hours and pour the bacteria in the chamber. They will find their way to the sponge and become embedded. You lose less live bacteria to the water column this way.
The "the sponge in the bowl" method Meredith described works great too.
Sistawolf
Valuable Member
Anytime
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