Calcium Formate for Alkalinity and Ca

[GMay]

Until recently, I was using CaOH (Kalk), and some two part to maintain Ca and Alk in my mixed reef. I was up to about 750 ml Kalk per day in a 70 gallon system. I also was seeing how this was affecting the equipment in my sump, i.e. lots of precipitate, and wanted to find a more natural way to maintain optimal conditions. After some research I fell into the literature on calcium salts of organic acids, acetic and formic acids. I eventually settled on using calcium formate as it is available from Tropic Marin, in Carbocalcium.

I have been using this for about a month now and have to say that I really like the product. Once I dialed in my dose, I have been able to maintain my Alk at 8.3 to 8.5 dKH and calcium at 410 to 420 ppm. I also like the fact that I am not needing to dose very much, about 12 to 15 ml per day in my system of 70 gallons. That means I can make a liter for dosing and it will be good for more than two months. While this is not as cheap as Kalk it is equally effective at maintaining calcium and alkalinity and requires less effort in my system.

I should note that the product say organic calcium salts, but I suspect it is mostly calcium formate. I would like to know if other are using this or a similar product and what their results have been.

I will post a followup after a couple of months as this will be a better test of the product and my success, or failure, using it.

Happy reefing!

 

[Geebs19]

Interesting! interested to see what others have to say.

 

[rushbattle]

It appears to work quite well, but I can’t stomach the cost per unit for the tropic Marin stuff. I am trying to find another way to source calcium formate without paying the money and CO2 emissions to ship water around the world.

 

[GMay]

I don't consider the cost that great, in my mind. A 700 gram can is about $20 and that is enough for almost a year in my system. I also consider the frequency of mixing Kalk, changing out containers, and along with the mess it made of my sump, that any additional cost for me is worth it.

 

[rushbattle]

Per this article:
http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

Randy estimates that CarboCal costs over $500 per year in a medium demand 100 gallon tank. Based on 55,000meq/l all demand annually. That’s off the charts compared to other methods.

 

[GMay]

I read the article several weeks ago and considered it a potential impediment to using this approach. After using now for nearly a month and seeing my usage on a 70 gallon system, my cost estimate is based on my usage. I am comfortable with an estimated cost $30 for my system annually. All systems are different. Mine is more LPS based, so I may not be a good measure of a SPS heavy system. Your milage may vary.

 

[rushbattle]

You limewater dosing above, assuming saturated limewater, indicates 0.4dkh/day consumption. Your quote of $30/yr for carbocalcium indicates less than 0.1dkh/day consumption. At less than 0.1dkh/day anything will be inexpensive

I’m only pointing this out so folks have an understanding of the relative cost of these supplements. Happy reefing!

 

[GMay]

I have to say this confused me as well. I see and measure what happens in my system. This product mixes at 8,600 mg Ca/Liter and 1,200 °dH/L and I am adding about 129 Ca and 18 °dH per day at 15 ml per day. These are the numbers based on the container.

Thanks for the discusion. This is why I started the thread.

Yes, happy reefing!

 

[rushbattle]

I have to say this confused me as well. I see and measure what happens in my system. This product mixes at 8,600 mg Ca/Liter and 1,200 °dH/L and I am adding about 129 Ca and 18 °dH per day at 15 ml per day. These are the numbers based on the container.

Thanks for the discusion. This is why I started the thread.

Yes, happy reefing!

Thanks for posting those numbers, helpful for those parsing these things out.

Based on what you said earlier, it seems possible that you had a bit of CaCO3 precipitation in the sump where you were dosing the limewater, and that was chewing up some Ca and CO3.

 

[GMay]

Yes there was precipitate and that was part of the reason I searched for an alternative. Ialso wanted to find some thing that was easier, required lesstime and was cleaner and chemically more friendly. This aslo doesn't increase NaCl like 2-part and thus is more like Kalk alone.

I was a longtime user of Kalk but never liked the mess.

Thanks for the discussion. Hopefully others can learn from it.

 

[rushbattle]

Yes there was precipitate and that was part of the reason I searched for an alternative. Ialso wanted to find some thing that was easier, required lesstime and was cleaner and chemically more friendly. This aslo doesn't increase NaCl like 2-part and thus is more like Kalk alone.

I was a longtime user of Kalk but never liked the mess.

Thanks for the discussion. Hopefully others can learn from it.

I was drawn to calcium formate for the same reasons. I’m looking for a less expensive option, I’ll try to remember to update this thread if I find anything.

 

[Steven Charles]

Until recently, I was using CaOH (Kalk), and some two part to maintain Ca and Alk in my mixed reef. I was up to about 750 ml Kalk per day in a 70 gallon system. I also was seeing how this was affecting the equipment in my sump, i.e. lots of precipitate, and wanted to find a more natural way to maintain optimal conditions. After some research I fell into the literature on calcium salts of organic acids, acetic and formic acids. I eventually settled on using calcium formate as it is available from Tropic Marin, in Carbocalcium.

I have been using this for about a month now and have to say that I really like the product. Once I dialed in my dose, I have been able to maintain my Alk at 8.3 to 8.5 dKH and calcium at 410 to 420 ppm. I also like the fact that I am not needing to dose very much, about 12 to 15 ml per day in my system of 70 gallons. That means I can make a liter for dosing and it will be good for more than two months. While this is not as cheap as Kalk it is equally effective at maintaining calcium and alkalinity and requires less effort in my system.

I should note that the product say organic calcium salts, but I suspect it is mostly calcium formate. I would like to know if other are using this or a similar product and what their results have been.

I will post a followup after a couple of months as this will be a better test of the product and my success, or failure, using it.

Happy reefing!

How is the Carbocalcium working out? I'm leaning towards it because dosing regular 2-part raises salinity over time. There aren't many reviews on this product for some reason.

 

[GMay]

I have been using this product for the 5 months and am very happy with it. My corals a growing and once I had the dosing pump dialed in the alkalinity has been very stable. As the corals grow I have had to bump up the does, but that is to be expected with is calcium and alkalinity dosing product. I plan to use this method of dosing going forward.

 

[Steven Charles]

I have been using this product for the 5 months and am very happy with it. My corals a growing and once I had the dosing pump dialed in the alkalinity has been very stable. As the corals grow I have had to bump up the does, but that is to be expected with is calcium and alkalinity dosing product. I plan to use this method of dosing going forward.

That's awesome to hear! How about the uptake rate of alkalinity in relation to calcium, are they even or do you have to supplement one to catch-up with the other?

 

[GMay]

They are fairly even. I do have to adjust alkalinity a little over the span of a couple of weeks. I suspect that is probably related to the amount of coraline algae growth.

 

[soeminpaing]

I think the other guy seems to be talking about carbo calcium liquid while the OP is obviously using the dry powder. I was thinking of going with the dry powder bottle too. But If you want to go more cheaper, there are animal feed grade calcium formate which sell a lot less per kg. A 25 kg bag can almost last a lifetime.

 

[TexasTodd]

I wish TM made their All for Reef in dry form.

 

[netsequent]

Per this article:
http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

Randy estimates that CarboCal costs over $500 per year in a medium demand 100 gallon tank. Based on 55,000meq/l all demand annually. That’s off the charts compared to other methods.

The article evaluated TMs BioCal, CarboCal is a different product which is premixed and can be automated.