Calling out all vendors... Ultra Rare Super Toxic Holy Garbage...

[F i s h y]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points, but ultimately we as hobbyists make the decision on whether to buy those overpriced pieces or not. As in, if you don't want to pay a ridiculously inflated price for a coral, don't buy it. Simple as that.

If enough people follow that mantra, the demand for those overpriced corals collapses, and the prices drop accordingly, regardless of the fancy names. It's economics 101.

I don't think you can fault coral farmers for trying to maximize their profits. If people are willing to pay those prices, then the market will bear it out. You say you understand capitalism. Well, that's capitalism.

Agree with you 100 percent.
My post is meant to drive discussions in 2 main areas. 1 just because a coral has a fancy name doesn't make it worth more than another. 2 hobbyist certainly are driving the prices higher and we should all be aware of who we are spending our money with and why.
To your point, until hobbyist stop paying the prices they will only continue to go up.

 

[Hal3134]

And while you’re at it, stop showing pics of the coral with only blue light. I get that actinic makes the corals pop, but I have no idea what that coral looks like under blue plus white light, like most of us run in our tanks. So until you stop this, I refuse to buy any corals from you. I’d like to buy corals from you, but you need to show me what I’m really getting.

For what it’s worth, many hobbyists around me sell their frags for pretty cheap. I intend to do the same once my frags get big enough to have their own frags.

 

[Nonya]

Dear Vendors,

Your use of the words Super, Ultra, Rare, Holy, OG, Rainbow, Unique, ETC is absurd. I am seeing labels placed on coral that is nothing short of blah and mundane. But I guess those words don't command high dollar amounts. For all those that insist on selling Zoanthids at such high prices PER POLYP, for the vendors that are selling coral at hundreds and thousands of dollars based on a name. You are pricing people out of the hobby.

I understand capitalism. I understand that there are some instances when it costs more to import and grow a coral, cultivate it. But I refuse to believe that the greed that i see in this hobby today is anything short of just that GREED...

Wake up hobbyists... Live sale, flash sale, they aren't really sales. and these are the same vendors selling 1500 coral at an average price of 50 a coral every 2 weeks during these "sales". Not to mention the product they sell in between. For those of you that math is hard, that is $112,500 for each flash sale at that price. Even if they only do one a month or one for every holiday or other event like "back to school sale".... They are still doing 12 to 20 of these sales a year. They are robbing us blind as hobbyists.

There is so much more that can be said... but until hobbyists are no longer willing to pay these prices and go back to the trade them if you have them mentality, eventually this will end up being a hobby for the ULTR SUPER RARE HOLY OG RICH people....


Anyone want to buy a super ultra rare og Tiger torch?

If the market will bear it, what's the problem? Do what I do and trade frags, or just give frags away.

I see the same corals given different marketing names based on slight color variations because they were grown in different tanks with varying chemistry, flow and lighting. I see differences within my own tank for frags taken from the same colony. Maybe I should give them unique names.

 

[StatelineReefer]

Noone is actually doing targeted breeding yet with corals, unlike with dogs. People just sell clones.

You say this, but some hobbyists have gotten viable coral spawns in their tank, From that point it is only a matter of time before corals grown from scratch and uniquely colored with zoox clades not typically found in those species emerge.

 

[Nonya]

Agree with you 100 percent.
My post is meant to drive discussions in 2 main areas. 1 just because a coral has a fancy name doesn't make it worth more than another. 2 hobbyist certainly are driving the prices higher and we should all be aware of who we are spending our money with and why.
To your point, until hobbyist stop paying the prices they will only continue to go up.

There will always be those who think paying exorbitant prices is a status symbol. It's that way in every hobby, and in life in general.

 

[elysics]

You say this, but some hobbyists have gotten viable coral spawns in their tank, From that point it is only a matter of time before corals grown from scratch and uniquely colored with zoox clades not typically found in those species emerge.

Sure, but that's random, not targeted.

I don't think selective breeding will be viable money wise. The price drops too fast for that and isn't high enough to begin with. Third party frags take months, raising a baby to maturity takes years.

Maybe for unfraggable lps, but that wouldn't even be a bad thing in my mind

 

[The_Skrimp]

The only reason they sell non-rare, tiny, half inch frags for exorbitant costs is because some people have been conditioned to think of coral as Pokémon or collectors items and will actually pay those prices.

The best solution is to join a reef club and buy sell and trade amongst other hobbyists at reasonable prices, give frags away, or shop with locals retailers and coral growers who don’t over charge.

It’s wild to me that some of the most popular vendors we see in the hobby are also the ones that sell their corals for many times more than what one could usually find them for locally if you’re patient and willing to shop around. I recently picked up some speckled krack zoas from a local reefer for nine bucks and I’ll likely be selling frags for about the same once they grow out. They’re zoas after all. It won’t be long before there are dozens more. Same zoas go for 70 to 90 dollars a frag online. Once you find those few groups and forums locally that you can buy sell and trade with, there’s very little reason to look back.

 

[Reefing102]

I understand your point but here is my argument: I don't know about larger vendors, but for smaller ones, depending on location $50 doesn't cover all the shipping fees associated. So lets say you buy a $10 coral from me and pay $50 shipping and you live across the country. The label alone cost me around $45-55. Box, heater/ice-pack, tape, packing materials, add around an additional 5-10. Gas and time it takes me to bring the box to UPS/FedEx. I end up just losing money. Oh and don't forget taxes! It's not beneficially (economically) to do so.



From experience, people don't buy cheaper/no name corals. As much as we want to believe that people are on the hunt for the cheap stuff, majority do not. This past year I attended about 3-4 local frag swap as a vendor. At first I dedicated about 3/4 of my tank to $10/$20 frags and the rest for higher end stuff (i.e. the HOLY GRAIL/ULTRA/etc.). I sold maybe a few of the $10 and $20 frags (montis, pc rainbow, milka stylo, zoas, acans, etc.). Even had old school green with purple tips frogspawn for $10/head. You know what I did sell out of? all the higher end stuff.

I can appreciate that and totally get it. I guess most of the stuff I look for is cheap stuff but I would guess I am in the minority

 

[JoJosReef]

I'll have to admit I am still flabbergasted by the extremely long list of thread participants whenever I "check in" on one of these almost daily live sales. Over and over. The majority of you guys definitely dig them. Why, I'll never really understand. But that's a topic for another thread.

Thing is, for every one thread like this, where we all blow steam and rant about the current state of things, and there are plenty, there are at least 5-10 active running live sale threads lol. As someone who was here before live sales existed, I can say with confidence, it has gotten silly. But as long as you guys keep going ga-ga over them, I'm afraid vendors that rely on them are going to keep doing them.

Almost wish I could grow sticks so I could find out why everyone speaks so highly of you guys. Alas, mint pavona seems to be the limits of my foray into SPS! One day!

 

[paintman]

This whole thread is quite comical. These vendors are not taking advantage of you. They are capitlizing on your own either stupidity, ego, or insecurities. Why can't you all admit you feel better about what you spend on a coral when it has a fancy name? I guarantee you, if I was to take a hammer coral and cut 2 heads off of it, and put them up on Fleecebay, each for the same exact price of $150. I would call one Green Hammer and the other one Neon Gobber Blaster Hammer. which one do you think I would sell first?
Don't believe me? I am a recently retired house painter of 40 years. I can't tell you how many times the driving factor of the color choosen was dictated by the name. Heres an example for painting a ceiling white. If I was to come in with 5 different brand paints with all the same exact pigment formulation. What color do you think would be chosen?
1. White
2. Ceiling White
3. Pure White
4. Simply White
5. Billowing Cloud White
Fact of the matter is #5 would be the winner 90% of the time. Mainly because it sounds better when you tell the neighbor you just spent $60 for a gallon of paint and another $150 to have the work done.
Sorry to call you all out but 90% of you are buying these corals based solely on their names. so you can brag about your purchase or feel better about yourselves.
Let the flamming bein in 3,2,1.................................

 

[rgulrich]

I'm not sure this will make anyone feel any better, but these are scans of some names and prices from the mid-80's of what we were paying back then...tucked away in the back of my hard copy of Veron's Corals of Australia and the Indo Pacific - from the same timeframe.

Ahh, the days of Compuserve...
Cheers,
Ray

 

[F i s h y]

I'm not sure this will make anyone feel any better, but these are scans of some names and prices from the mid-80's of what we were paying back then...tucked away in the back of my hard copy of Veron's Corals of Australia and the Indo Pacific - from the same timeframe.

Ahh, the days of Compuserve...
Cheers,
Ray

Love this.

 

[Reefer Matt]

This whole thread is quite comical. These vendors are not taking advantage of you. They are capitlizing on your own either stupidity, ego, or insecurities. Why can't you all admit you feel better about what you spend on a coral when it has a fancy name? I guarantee you, if I was to take a hammer coral and cut 2 heads off of it, and put them up on Fleecebay, each for the same exact price of $150. I would call one Green Hammer and the other one Neon Gobber Blaster Hammer. which one do you think I would sell first?
Don't believe me? I am a recently retired house painter of 40 years. I can't tell you how many times the driving factor of the color choosen was dictated by the name. Heres an example for painting a ceiling white. If I was to come in with 5 different brand paints with all the same exact pigment formulation. What color do you think would be chosen?
1. White
2. Ceiling White
3. Pure White
4. Simply White
5. Billowing Cloud White
Fact of the matter is #5 would be the winner 90% of the time. Mainly because it sounds better when you tell the neighbor you just spent $60 for a gallon of paint and another $150 to have the work done.
Sorry to call you all out but 90% of you are buying these corals based solely on their names. so you can brag about your purchase or feel better about yourselves.
Let the flamming bein in 3,2,1.................................

Very true. Value perceived over value received. It applies to all retail shopping. I didn't realize it until I started a business myself.

 

[nuxx]

Very true. Value perceived over value received. It applies to all retail shopping. I didn't realize it until I started a business myself.

Should start giving fish crazy made up names and raise prices

 

[Jekyl]

Should start giving fish crazy made up names and raise prices

Already being done with clowns.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Already being done with clowns.

Super Mocha Lightning Storm Trooper Clown.

 

[nuxx]

Already being done with clowns.

Good point!

 

[Kfactor]

what gets me is the size of the frag and the price that goes with it lol

 

[happyhourhero]

Live sales are just an avenue to get things I cannot get locally with some sprinkles of excitement if I snipe a really good deal. There are some golden eggs on this site with a few vendors and there are some live sales that to me, are just dumb and I feel bad for people who fall for them.

I am not a name shopper but I definitely pick up some named frags that I like so I can sell it locally and make some more money to dump back into my tank.

I see folks saying online vendors saturate pics and deliver “beat up” livestock from sales but I have never not been pleased with my orders and nothing is beat up or not as described but I only shop with certain vendors. Fraghouse, Battlecorals, TCK, Tidal Gardens, etc.

 

[Beau_B]

I'm not sure this will make anyone feel any better, but these are scans of some names and prices from the mid-80's of what we were paying back then...tucked away in the back of my hard copy of Veron's Corals of Australia and the Indo Pacific - from the same timeframe.

Ahh, the days of Compuserve...
Cheers,
Ray

Considering inflation, most things are substantially less expensive now by comparison.