Certified Quarantined Fish Shipped To Your Door...

LAReefer4Life · Jun 3, 2019

I would pay 2-3X for the peace of mind. FOR SURE!

Paul B · Jun 3, 2019

MnFish1 said:
\FWIW -- I dont know do you? what is the best food for most tangs?

I do. Just spend 30 or 40 hours underwater with them and watch what they eat. I do and just did last week.

(Photobucket is not working right now so make believe there is a school of blue tangs here with me following them.

)

They eat "mostly" whatever is growing on the rocks including whatever is living in that algae. The algae on most reefs is so short that they have to literally scrape the rock to get something and they eat constantly. They rarely eat out of the water column because tangs seem to me to be rather stupid, or at least set in their ways and just follow the school. One will not swim away to eat something floating by as it is not PC in the tang community. The stuff they are scraping off the rocks is loaded with other things besides seaweeds. I am sure they are sucking in thousands of pods, worms and the fry and babies of multitudes of other "living" creatures.

WE feed a lot of nori, but nori is dried algae. I feed it also but I am not sure anything dried (like flakes) is the best diet for anything. But I am guessing.

In my tank now I only have one tang. I feed him clams, mysis, and worms like the rest of my fish. He also grazes on the rocks as he would do in the sea as I keep algae growing on the back and sides of my tank. That algae is fresh and growing just as it is in the sea and I like to keep a natural tank.
(Make believe there is a picture of a hippo tang in my tank eating algae and Christie Brinkley is taking his picture

)

Aardvark1134 said:
Honestly I would expect the average lifespan of a wild blue tang in the wild to be somewhere between days and weeks.

Probably seconds for most of them, but many survive as they are the most common fish on the reefs. I don't know their life span either but I have kept many of them for at least 10 years. I would assume they live about 12 to 15 years, but again, a guess.

Tony Thompson said:
I have never seen or heard of any argument that would contradict a simple quarantine period. A period of observation separate from the general population. The size of the quarantine tank should be calculated using common sense. You can feed the animal just the same as if it was in the main display (even collecting worms from your ocean if you have the time and access).

I agree with this if that is what you want to do. But does anyone here quarantine a fish in a tank as large as their main tank that is decorated with real rocks and real bacteria? A tank where the fish can graze on algae or hunt pods? I would assume most people quarantine in a small, bare tank with PVC fittings. That is a tank that IMO "causes" most of the problems and diseases that the disease forum is full of.

Tony Thompson said:
Just because you have never quarantined and never had an outbreak does not prove anything.

This could or could not be true depending on the time limit. If you started the hobby two or three years ago, that means nothing. But If you have not quarantined in 50 or so years, that means an entirely different thing. Scientists research things, like the life cycle of ich and come up with a number. But they only research that for a few months or until the money runs out. To me, that doesn't mean much.

It's like when people say they have "Great" success doing something like feeding, quarantining, singing, etc. Great success for 2 or 3 years is nothing for a fish that is supposed to live 15 or 20 years. People keep Moorish Idols for 4 or 5 years and say that is great success. It is not.
The "only" Great Success is if the fish dies of old age. Dying after one quarter of it's life is a complete failure.

Tony Thompson said:
I have been saying for some time now, this great hobby of ours is in need of a big wake up call, before it's gone forever. Support captive breeding, ethically sourced livestock and reef restoration.

I totally agree with this

ngoodermuth · Jun 3, 2019

I ordered a pre-quarantined fish from Humblefish Aquatics and paid under double the local rate for the same fish. Unfortunately, he's not accepting new orders at the moment.

It was a fish I'd struggled to QT myself, and I 100% trust Humblefish to properly QT a fish. It was so satisfying to just temp float and let him go (the fish was shipped in water that matches salinity of most reef tanks, so I didn't even have to drip acclimate) He was eating frozen food well before he was sent to me, and in perfect health. And adjusted to my reef well in a very short amount of time. I would definitely, 100% pay more for this service!

I QT all of my fish, so I absolutely want to have some sort of certification/warranty involved to verify QT. And honestly, I'm not quick to trust just any Joe Shmo who says they are QT'ing fish. I trusted Humblefish based purely on his work and reputation here, it would be nice if there was some sort of public presence, video tours, records of medications that have been used on the particular batch of fish from which I've purchased, etc. There would need to be a level of transparency and definitely a guarantee, until trust and reliability is established.

But, I would absolutely pay more for healthy, established, pest-free aquarium fish.

BryanD · Jun 3, 2019

Once it in the box, and shipping to your door, quarantine is again necessary. So saying you'd pay extra for a pre-quarantined fish .... makes no sense. The fish in the LFS don't have anything either when you look at them, and I quarantine them after the 45 minute ride home every time.

Paul B · Jun 3, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
I trusted Humblefish based purely on his work and reputation here,

He is a friend of mine and if he says it is quarantined, then it is.

ngoodermuth · Jun 3, 2019

Paul B said:
He is a friend of mine and if he says it is quarantined, then it is.

I agree, and consider him a friend as well... but my point is that it would take a good bit of convincing from anyone else

BeejReef · Jun 3, 2019

Seems like it would be a tough business model. Not so hard to sell to the handful of reefers that really do keep disease free tanks, but that's such a minority.
I feel like a pre-qt service (at least one for the masses) would largely attract clients that do not want to, and have not bothered to so far, qt their fish.

So the properly qtd and disease free fish gets popped and dropped into a system with latent ich or flukes, gets sick, and the responsible seller gets all sorts of negative feedback online

Makers Marc · Jun 3, 2019

Jon Fishman said:
My local shop will order the fish, and quarantine it for free...... If it doesn’t survive I don’t pay a dime. They have pretty great customer service

Think we are all jealous you have that option

Biglurr54 · Jun 3, 2019

Im all for buying Qted fish, but right now, i wouldn't pay anything extra. It would depend on qt processes. We have Divers Den as an option. They QT. I wouldnt put one of their fish in my display with out treating it. I have chromis so every fish has to be run through a full course of Metro to keep Uronema out. If i was buying a butterfly fish, it would need antibiotics as they get infections due to the stress of shipping. I would still Qt every fish to observe the fish and train them to my foods and water conditions. There is a lot of things going on when you Qt a new fish that is not just disease prevention.

Drew in Texas · Jun 3, 2019

revhtree said:
No plans, no motives, just a simple question from someone who would pay quite a bit more for quarantined fish and was wondering if others would as well!

Would you pay more for certificated quarantined fish that you could acclimate and drop straight in the tank? If so how much more would you pay? 2x 3x 5x?

I personally would pay up to 3x more.

Having been in the hobby (my wife refers to it as an addiction, though she's into it as much as I) for a number of years, we've had a 100% loss due to velvet once before I had a QT. I simply don't trust the confluence of factors (new fish that's stressed, going into a new tank, having just been shipped, LFS exposure to who knows what) to NOT have a QT. Since I have no proof, no matter where I get it, that it's been properly quarantined I won't take the risk. Simple as that.

Orcus Varuna · Jun 3, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
I ordered a pre-quarantined fish from Humblefish Aquatics and paid under double the local rate for the same fish. Unfortunately, he's not accepting new orders at the moment.

It was a fish I'd struggled to QT myself, and I 100% trust Humblefish to properly QT a fish. It was so satisfying to just temp float and let him go (the fish was shipped in water that matches salinity of most reef tanks, so I didn't even have to drip acclimate) He was eating frozen food well before he was sent to me, and in perfect health. And adjusted to my reef well in a very short amount of time. I would definitely, 100% pay more for this service!

I QT all of my fish, so I absolutely want to have some sort of certification/warranty involved to verify QT. And honestly, I'm not quick to trust just any Joe Shmo who says they are QT'ing fish. I trusted Humblefish based purely on his work and reputation here, it would be nice if there was some sort of public presence, video tours, records of medications that have been used on the particular batch of fish from which I've purchased, etc. There would need to be a level of transparency and definitely a guarantee, until trust and reliability is established.

But, I would absolutely pay more for healthy, established, pest-free aquarium fish.

For more expensive fish that are typically difficult to qt and acclimate I could only imagine the overhead would be very high even for someone with the depth of knowledge and experience as @HumbleFish. I will wait for him to answer but my experience is with even the best qt procedures you still experience 40%+ mortality rates. I have also seen in the past few years increasingly difficult to treat variations of common diseases such as copper resistant velvet and praziquantel/metronidazole resistant hexamita. I am beginning to think health of system and diversity in foods such as @PaulB preaches may be what we are forced to focus on if these trends continue.

ngoodermuth · Jun 3, 2019

Oh, I don’t pretend to think it’s an easy or risk-less service to offer... or cost-effective. All the more reason to appreciate it if/when it exists with regularity

Paul B · Jun 3, 2019

Orcus Varuna said:
but my experience is with even the best qt procedures you still experience 40%+ mortality rates.

I think that is horrible and If I had that high a mortality rate, I would probably quit.

I have zero mortality rate from disease but i do lose fish. They jump out, get bullied (especially if I have two males) starve (if I am not prepared for that type of fish which would be my fault) Most of them die of old age.

Orcus Varuna · Jun 3, 2019

Paul B said:
I think that is horrible and If I had that high a mortality rate, I would probably quit.

I have zero mortality rate from disease but i do lose fish. They jump out, get bullied (especially if I have two males) starve (if I am not prepared for that type of fish which would be my fault) Most of them die of old age.

I believe my statement was poorly worded lol. I’m mainly talking fish purchased wholesale with the intent to resell not those sourced at a lfs. Heck, sometimes I’ll purchase a fish covered in ich if its spunky from a lfs. Unfortunately for a commercial operation the mortality rates of bulk fish shipments from wholesalers are that high ime. Maybe we just need Paul B to scale up a commercial operation. I’d pay a nice premium for Paul conditioned fish and super immune boosting black worm culture starter kits [emoji12]

Paul B · Jun 3, 2019

You may not want fish from me.

I try very hard to make sure they have been exposed to everything. Sometimes when I have nothing to do I take them to local hospital and make them lick the push buttons of the elevators to subject them to more illnesses.
I want bulletproof fish, not Sissy, girly fish that get silly diseases. I have no ambition to keep fish medication manufacturers in business.

I do have super white worm cultures. For some reason the whiteworm culture I started many years ago do not look anything like the original worms. They are much fatter and longer and probably three times as big. I am not sure why or even if they are the same species I started with. Some of them have scary tattoos on them.
My original culture eating a cracker.

You can see how thin they are and they seem to be bent.

This is them now. They are much bigger, I am almost afraid of them and they no longer will eat crackers. They eat whole wheat bread which I freeze and put plain, fully fatted yogurt on. They will eat an entire slice in a couple of days and they multiply like crazy. I got millions of them. They are bigger than black worms and they live for 5 days in salt water so I spread them behind the rocks and the mandarins and other "hiders" take advantage of them all day and night. I love these guys.