Contaminated rotifers

[andrewkw]

First let me just say I am in rural Canada. If I could order from Reed Mariculture I would. 7 days ago I received my rotifers and was very happy I could actually see some movement in the water. Later I find out the density is crazy low, but at least I have some. I finally get around to getting a microscope and I see tons of movement. I am happy the culture has become dense, but wait those aren't rotifers! They are too small and way too fast. They appear to be either flagellates or euplotes. They certainly are problematic because despite 7 days of feeding my rotifers are still not very dense. Out of 20-30 samples I saw maybe 1 or 2 rotifers.

Finally I squired about 100ml of water or more through the screen and then collected a drop from the inside. I finally got 4-5 rotifers in the drop.

These weren't cheap and I have few other options. Ordering from another place Monday. Given that these are effectively useless I am thinking of asking for at least a partial refund. They came with a bottle of concentrated phyto which does at least seem usable but I will be getting new phyto from the other place and eventually getting some RGComplete to replace the phyto.

Here are some videos. Relatively cheap microscope and my first day using it so the quality isn't great.







Do I need to sterilize everything? I am thinking of feeding the few rotifers I have to my next hatch since they will hatch before I get replacement rotifers. Given it's either that or let them starve I don't really see an issue with that, but maybe there is one?

 

[ichthyogeek]

So a few things that I think will help you:

First let me just say I am in rural Canada. If I could order from Reed Mariculture I would. 7 days ago I received my rotifers and was very happy I could actually see some movement in the water. Later I find out the density is crazy low, but at least I have some. I finally get around to getting a microscope and I see tons of movement. I am happy the culture has become dense, but wait those aren't rotifers! They are too small and way too fast. They appear to be either flagellates or euplotes. They certainly are problematic because despite 7 days of feeding my rotifers are still not very dense. Out of 20-30 samples I saw maybe 1 or 2 rotifers.

Finally I squired about 100ml of water or more through the screen and then collected a drop from the inside. I finally got 4-5 rotifers in the drop.

These weren't cheap and I have few other options. Ordering from another place Monday. Given that these are effectively useless I am thinking of asking for at least a partial refund. They came with a bottle of concentrated phyto which does at least seem usable but I will be getting new phyto from the other place and eventually getting some RGComplete to replace the phyto.

...

Do I need to sterilize everything? I am thinking of feeding the few rotifers I have to my next hatch since they will hatch before I get replacement rotifers. Given it's either that or let them starve I don't really see an issue with that, but maybe there is one?

You can most likely start over with those 4-5 rotifers in all honesty. Try to sequester as many rotifers as possible into a small sterile container (think: small soda bottles, tiny tupperwares, etc.). Then feed the culture as normal. Crashed cultures do happen, and rotifers are such resilient little buggers, that I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back booming over the next few months.

Do ask for a partial refund, but at the same time, try to salvage the culture. Attaching the videos of the culture with all of the contaminants will probably bolster your chances of getting refunded. And if all else fails, call them, and don't take no for an answer (or ask anything. Something like "I was sold a bag of rotifers, and the bag was full of non-rotifers. I am asking for [whatever amount of money] back, since this was not what I paid for.)

I'm not sure if you'll be able to salvage enough rotifers in order to feed the clownfish larvae for that long. My advice is to let this clutch go, and concentrate on boosting the rotifer numbers.

Also! Check the phytoplankton food. It could be that the contaminants are coming from there.

 

[andrewkw]

Everything you say makes sense and thank you for taking the time to reply. I put a couple of drops of the phyto in a couple ml of water last night with a clean pipette so I'll check that soon. I sent the guy/company videos of what I discovered and told him his supply is contaminated. While he did look at the messages sent over facebook he chose not to reply.

If this was just like $20 I wouldn't even complain, if it was $50 I would just drop it after complaining once but this was $141. I spoke to another company who told me i "will not be disappointed in density" as he doesn't just sell them but breeds fish. So they will get a chance next week. While I still would have preferred a number, his prices are cheaper + will give me the opportunity to buy live phyto, regardless of if my supply is contaminated or not it's supposed to be sterile. Since RGComplete can't just be ordered online in Canada for reasons, I'll have to contact a former LFS and see if they can order / ship me some in the future. Other then that I got basically everything I need except the rotifers which is really annoying. Even tracked down a vossen trap which is another not easy to find thing in Canada and should be here next week along with some TDO.

 

[andrewkw]

They are denying their rotifers are contaminated and claim they always check them + sterilize. So basically my brand new buckets that were washed just happen to have a common aquaculture contaminate.

I am going to file a dispute which I can’t say I ever remember doing. In addition to the pests there are almost no rotifers in the water. This to me is like buying a bag of sugar and getting 17 grains of sugar along with 100 grains of salt and calling it a bag of sugar.

The other interesting thing is the place has tons of terrible reviews but most are lack of communication and taking forever to ship. I got my shipment pretty fast and they did answer my questions.

 

[taricha]

look like ciliates or oxyrrhis marina - neither of which should be a problem for raising larvae, I think. They might be an issue in a phyto culture, but stuff like this often is in rotifer cultures.

 

[andrewkw]

look like ciliates or oxyrrhis marina - neither of which should be a problem for raising larvae, I think. They might be an issue in a phyto culture, but stuff like this often is in rotifer cultures.

I was told they could be " problematic for a culture due to their rapid reproduction, oxygen demand and waste".

I've already bleached all my buckets and airline. I thought I had a ton of airline but apparently I don't. I'll order a new roll so I won't have keep cleaning out used.

I moved the rotifers (and contaminates) to mason jars from 5 gallon bucket since there are still not very many. I expect my current clutch to hatch Monday night so I will feed them what I have then I will start all new cultures from new supplier next week. Running them through the screen a few times definitely cut back on them since they are much smaller then the rotifers I think many passed through the screen.

Will be interesting to see how paypal rules this dispute since they're going to have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Torontotraders]

I was told they could be " problematic for a culture due to their rapid reproduction, oxygen demand and waste".

I've already bleached all my buckets and airline. I thought I had a ton of airline but apparently I don't. I'll order a new roll so I won't have keep cleaning out used.

I moved the rotifers (and contaminates) to mason jars from 5 gallon bucket since there are still not very many. I expect my current clutch to hatch Monday night so I will feed them what I have then I will start all new cultures from new supplier next week. Running them through the screen a few times definitely cut back on them since they are much smaller then the rotifers I think many passed through the screen.

Will be interesting to see how paypal rules this dispute since they're going to have no idea what I'm talking about.

Hi there. I too am in Canada (BC) and am seeking both Rotifers and Copepods. glad i found your post, as this helps me be a little more careful. Who did you end up using, and were you happy, and therefore recommend them?

 

[Cell]

$140 for rotifers is crazy.

 

[ThRoewer]

If there is a size difference between the rotifers and the contaminating organisms you could try to separate them by straining or using a "nauplii harvester" with the right intake and retaining meshes to filter out either the contaminant or the rotifers.
Another option would be to pipet a few rotifers out under a microscope and try to start a clean culture with those.
The good thing about rotifers is that they reproduce quickly, so with just a handful you may be able to get the culture back up in a reasonable time.

I had a rotifers contamination of my Apocyclops cultures and there was really only one viable option: starting over fresh. After that disaster, I'm more careful with my algae cultures and filter (and check with a microscope) everything that goes into a culture.

BTW, I found that rotifers and Tigriopus pods can coexist pretty well without killing each other as long as you feed the Tigriopus enough.

 

[andrewkw]

Hi there. I too am in Canada (BC) and am seeking both Rotifers and Copepods. glad i found your post, as this helps me be a little more careful. Who did you end up using, and were you happy, and therefore recommend them?

CanadaAquamarineEnglish

CanadaAquamarineEnglish

canadaaquamarine.com

Within a couple of days I had a 5 gallon bucket full of rotifers, no contaminates, lots of help. I also purchased live phyto from him and F2 for roughly the same cost as the previous place with dead phyto and some rotifers.

He also gave me a bunch of tips which is nice, but the product speaks for itself. I have clownfish larvae that are no longer starving to death. The copepod.ca guy was just beyond terrible. Blaming me for the contaminate even though I used brand new buckets and prior to this was not culturing anything other then my reef tanks.

$140 for rotifers is crazy.

Imagine paying over $280 for rotifers then? Actually I was real lucky. After the first guy was completely unwilling to work with me or offer me a partial refund I filled a dispute with paypal, I believe for the 2nd time ever in 20 years of using paypal. I sent them microscope images of what I got vs what I should have got and they refunded me! It probably helped that the guys store was full of terrible reviews but I was very surprised to actually get this money back. The only reason I even paid with paypal was I had $12 or something in my account and I wanted to use it.

While it would have been possible to collect a few rotifers (maybe) and start a culture like that, how long until it was sustainable? Weeks? Months? I bought what was supposed to be either enough to start a culture right off the bat or feed fry. Only one did not starve to death out of the first batch. The key point I learned very quickly is there is no more work or weight to 1 rotifer, 1 thousand or 1 million.

This was just because I got it from somewhere that normally doesn't ship and shipping is expensive but I just paid $125 for a bottle of RG Complete. So I will continue to use live phyto in conjunction with the RG Complete since it's so easy to culture phytoplankton and I can use it in my reefs ect as well.