Coppersafe dosage incorrect on bottle?

[Brew12]

It's fairly close to the coloration on the card. A bit different, but close enough for me to tell. We order the large gallon jugs of Coppersafe for using in our fish system (900 gallons) and we go through probably a jug or two a month ( I've never kept track, but the math should be easy enough). I also go through test kits pretty quick so I'm not using the same one for very long at all. I don't know if that helps at all though.

I think it helps show that we are making no progress getting closer to what is going on.

If anything, I'm beginning to feel it is a user problem, not a product or testing problem. The only thing that seems to fit everything is that some of us are unable to successfully read an API copper test kit.

 

[melypr1985]

I think it helps show that we are making no progress getting closer to what is going on.

If anything, I'm beginning to feel it is a user problem, not a product or testing problem. The only thing that seems to fit everything is that some of us are unable to successfully read an API copper test kit.

I've found that most men are at least some form of color blind. That doesn't help either though

 

[Brew12]

I've found that most men are at least some form of color blind. That doesn't help either though

lol I went through a full battery of color blindness test when I was certified to operate a nuclear reactor. Passed with flying colors (pun intended). Granted, that was in 1993....

 

[drawman]

I've found that most men are at least some form of color blind. That doesn't help either though

That was the thing they always told us in dental school lol. I think it just keeps the older guys from having to admit they can't read a shade. 20/10 non colorblind vision here and I still think it looks yellow like Brew12.

My fish are still swimming and eating well so I won't be adding anymore copper until the next API kit arrives. Hopefully I can get some consistency and add to the conversation.

I'm glad this thread is still progressing it's good to talk it out at least even if we don't come to a resolution . @Humblefish I've had half a mind to contact Drsfostersmith and tell them the info on their website is bull. Maybe that would help sound an alarm maybe not...

 

[Humblefish]

I'm glad this thread is still progressing it's good to talk it out at least even if we don't come to a resolution . @Humblefish I've had half a mind to contact Drsfostersmith and tell them the info on their website is bull. Maybe that would help sound an alarm maybe not...

I'm communicating with the mfg of Coppersafe, going back & forth with them trying to sort this all out.

Hopefully I'll have some solid info to share with the R2R community soon.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

I need to retract my input; just got the Chemets test and I'm reading way high.. Somewhere around 2.5ish ppm. So either I'm color blind or over analyzed the API test until I changed my mind. So now, I'm thinking the bottle directions are probably pretty close.

Give me a minute and I'll get a gallon of water and measure out the proper amount of coppersafe based off the bottle and do a test with the Chemets test to check it.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

Well, I take back all my naysaying words, it's pretty well spot on at 2.0 with the Chemets kit. Measured out 1 gallon and used 1.25mL of coppersafe, based on 5ml per 4 gallons. Seems like this has to be an issue with the vague-ness of the API test kit, at least in my opinion.

 

[Brew12]

Well, I take back all my naysaying words, it's pretty well spot on at 2.0 with the Chemets kit. Measured out 1 gallon and used 1.25mL of coppersafe, based on 5ml per 4 gallons. Seems like this has to be an issue with the vague-ness of the API test kit, at least in my opinion.

That is incredibly helpful! A little frustrating, but helpful none the less!

The 2 things that immediately come to mind...
1) Should we be recommending the API test when so many people are reading it wrong?
2) Coppersafe must be much safer than we had ever realized because many of us have been overdosing.

I can't wait to see how all this ties in with the information that Humblefish is collecting.

 

[Empress]

As Vinnie Barbarino would say, "I'm so confused".(Welcome Back Kotter. I used to have a wild crush on John Travolta wayyy back then).

Can't they make copper test strips? That would be a lot easier.

 

[drawman]

When I tested my dose earlier this week it was definitely a rusty brown (4.0ppm) off the API test kit so in my case either there is an issue with my bottle or the API kit (I will test with the new kit either late tonight or tomorrow). That said, once I did a water change and diluted the concentration it was rather yellow compared to the card (at a reading of 1.0-2.0). This was under straight fluorescent light so maybe natural sunlight is better? In Minnesota this time of year we don't get too much of that

 

[ebushrow]

I am wondering if when fritz bought the right to Mardel, if they decreased the concentration that they use (to increase profits) and just continued with the same bottle packaging and information....and I am also wondering if the variation could be between when Mardel made it and when Fritz started making it....by that I mean, some bottles have been on the shelf at the LFS awhile (old stock) and some are newer (post fritz)....the older stuff was more concentrated or at the proper concentration....

The best test I could think of is comparing an old bottle to a new bottle (pre and post Fritz)...I assume this would be difficult though...

 

[Humblefish]

1) Should we be recommending the API test when so many people are reading it wrong?

I'm starting to think the same thing. However, I anticipate lots of groaning when I tell people they ought to be using a $65 copper test kit over an $8 one.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

I'm starting to think the same thing. However, I anticipate lots of groaning when I tell people they ought to be using a $65 copper test kit over an $8 one.

Yep, the masses will not be happy about that added investment (I wasn't super happy about it, but knew I needed to), but the lack of resolution on the API kit leaves a whole lot of room for interpretation, and I've definitely lost WAY more than the extra $57 worth of fish that probably would have survived had I been within the proper range. I've been using API kits for well over a decade so I felt reasonably sure I was in the ballpark, but not even close. I'll always steer people towards Chemets going forward.

In my opinion, if someone has the means to spend money on a new fish, separate tank, filter, copper medication and a test kit; then they should have an extra 60 bucks to do the quarantine correctly.

 

[drawman]

I'm starting to think the same thing. However, I anticipate lots of groaning when I tell people they ought to be using a $65 copper test kit over an $8 one.

Are you still using the API or are you using something different? Either way I know you're getting good results!

Yep, the masses will not be happy about that added investment (I wasn't super happy about it, but knew I needed to), but the lack of resolution on the API kit leaves a whole lot of room for interpretation, and I've definitely lost WAY more than the extra $57 worth of fish that probably would have survived had I been within the proper range. I've been using API kits for well over a decade so I felt reasonably sure I was in the ballpark, but not even close. I'll always steer people towards Chemets going forward.

In my opinion, if someone has the means to spend money on a new fish, separate tank, filter, copper medication and a test kit; then they should have an extra 60 bucks to do the quarantine correctly.

I tend to agree. Either way getting people to quarantine in the first place is often the biggest leap. Unfortunately is velvet incidence is increasing it may be unavoidable for most going forward. I'm assuming the chemets test is similar to the API (ie single reagent) and test for chelated obviously (I know you were wondering before receiving it)?

 

[Jeffdstafford]

Are you still using the API or are you using something different? Either way I know you're getting good results!


I tend to agree. Either way getting people to quarantine in the first place is often the biggest leap. Unfortunately is velvet incidence is increasing it may be unavoidable for most going forward. I'm assuming the chemets test is similar to the API (ie single reagent) and test for chelated obviously (I know you were wondering before receiving it)?

The Chemets test is actually ridiculously simple; you put 25mL of tank water into the provided container, get one of the glass vials and stick it in the water into a groove in the bottom of the container, then just move it a little to break the tip off the vial. It's vacuum sealed, so it immediately sucks up the correct amount of tank water, rotate it a couple times to mix it, and it's ready to read 1 minute later.

It comes with 2 ways to read results, one for 0-1ppm for cupramine, and a 1-10ppm for chelated coppersafe. Even though the 1-10ppm results are still big jumps of 1ppm between the different readings, there is a very obvious difference between them making it easy to read.

And since it worked perfectly with Coppersafe, looks like it will read all forms of copper.

 

[Humblefish]

Are you still using the API or are you using something different? Either way I know you're getting good results!

I do & I am; however I've got 20+ years of experience using the API copper test kit + Coppersafe under my belt. My wife had to point out to me one time that it might be difficult for someone new to get used to the API test kit.

I also only use Coppersafe on wrasses & Hippo Tangs I experiment on nowadays. Everyone else gets treated with Chloroquine.

 

[drawman]

I also only use Coppersafe on wrasses & Hippo Tangs I experiment on nowadays. Everyone else gets treated with Chloroquine.

Hopefully one day we can all say the same

 

[Jeffdstafford]

Humble, how did you get an Rx for the CP? I've spoken to 2 vets in my area, and they both looked at me like I was nuts. I showed them info online about it and told them to contact the manufacturing company about it, but they just brushed me off and basically told me to go away...great service there

They also couldn't find any actual dosage info, so they didn't want to be responsible for an overdose fish death..despite me telling them I'd use at my own risk.

 

[drawman]

Humble, how did you get an Rx for the CP? I've spoken to 2 vets in my area, and they both looked at me like I was nuts. I showed them info online about it and told them to contact the manufacturing company about it, but they just brushed me off and basically told me to go away...great service there

They also couldn't find any actual dosage info, so they didn't want to be responsible for an overdose fish death..despite me telling them I'd use at my own risk.

I went to a vet that works for a big aquarium in the state and still got shut down. She didn't like it as a med

 

[Jeffdstafford]

I went to a vet that works for a big aquarium in the state and still got shut down. She didn't like it as a med

Geez, can't we just sign a liability waiver or something??