DC Pumps: Ecotech vs. Royal Exclusiv vs. Abyzz

[NeverlosT]

Hi all,

These pumps all have slightly different performance and very different pricepoints. From what I can tell, the ecotech seems to be the best buy, but I would like to hear folks reasons for why they would pony up the extra dough for the Royal Exclusiv or the Abyzz?

I'd like to hear FROM OWNERS IDEALLY, comments on build quality and power, control ability, and value. Why would someone buy the Abyzz over the Vectra if not just to have a really pricey pump? Can these all be run internally/externally?

Discuss...

Here are the stats:

Ecotech Vectra L1:
$450

• Dimensions: 7.0" H x 5.0" W x 9.0" L
• Flow: 3100 gph (11500 lph)
• Pressure: 21.5' (6.5m)
• Wattage: 130W
• Input: 1.5" (38mm
• Output: 1" (25mm)
• Programmable: Yes
• Return Mode: Yes
• Closed Loop Mode: Yes
• ESL/ReefLink: Yes
• Feed Mode: Yes
• Battery Backup Compatible: Yes

Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon 3 Mini Speedy 50 Watt 5.0m3 DC Pump:
$670

• 5000 liters/hr (1320 GPH)
• 50 Watt/h 4.0 mtr. pressure height
• speed adjustable Brushless DC pump
• Watt- and Percent- Display
• intake side 40 mm - pressure side 25 mm
• operating voltage: 110V/60Hz
• Protection class pump: IP 68 control unit: IP 66
• Weight pump: 3.2 kg
• Height of intake side: center 70 mm
• Dimension pump: 110 mm wide / 200 mm length / ~ 160 mm height
• Dimension control unit: 120 mm wide / 170 mm length / ~ 65 mm height

Royal Exclusiv RD3 Speedy NEW 80W 8000L/h (2113 GPH)
$750

• 80 Watt/h 5,2 mtr. pressure height
• speed adjustable brushless DC pump
• Watt-Display at the controller /// in 5Watt steps adjustable
• intake side 50 mm - pressure side 32 mm
• operating voltage: 110V/60Hz
• Protection class pump: IP 68 control unit: IP 66
• Weight pump: 3,6 kg
• Weight controller: 1,1kg
• Height of intake side: center 70 mm
• Dimension pump: 130 mm wide / 235 mm length / ~ 190 mm height
• Dimension control unit: 140 mm breit / 190 mm length / ~ 70 mm height

Abyzz A100-2M DC Water Pump
$1299.00

• BOOSTMODE® max flow rate: 2,200 gph / 8,500 lph
• Normal mode max flow rate: 1880 gph / 7,300 lph
• Delivery height: max. 19.5 ft / 6.0 meters
• Rated input : 5-100W
• Input voltage: 90V-240V~ @ 50-60Hz
• Operating Voltage: 12V
• Ambient temperature: 35.6°F - 104°F +2°C...+40°C
• Maximum operating pressure: 17.4 PSI / 1,2 bar
• Maximum immersion depth: 6.5 ft / 2 meters
• Pump cable length: 6.5 ft/ 2m
• Inlet/outlet connections: 40mm/25mm (suitable for PVC/AVB adhesive fittings)

 

[143MPCo]

I tend to look at it this way...

Efficiency in a pump would be conversion of electricity to torque. You cannot beat the efficiency of a fixed speed ac induction motor any other piece you add to the chain reduced efficiency. Any component added will use power which is less power to pump with. A fixed speed ac pump may not fit the application but there is no more efficiency to gain because you cannot further reduce the system.

Better yet here is the math
http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/06-html/6-01.html

ok fine... but, how would you argue the power consumptions of AC to DC pump being better or worse?

No one has direct dc service to their home. That voltage must be converted the hysteresis of this step down and rectification takes energy. This is loss and it is one in most situations you are paying for. Let’s say you run on solar or a battery so no conversion no loss. Higher voltages are the first factor in mitigating loss Power = V·I and Loss = I2R. So you would need an output of 110 or 230 to have the same potential in a dc system. That’s one heck of a battery.

More math
http://www.me.ua.edu/me416/LECTURE MATERIALS/MotorEffic&PF-CM5.pdf

Consumption I.E. kilowatt hours is different than efficiency i.e. killo watts/ torque.

Trying to find a balance between the two and still maintain adequate flow requirements will impact the bottom line; question is how much is one willing to pay for it!?!?

Each of the pumps listed above, reputation wise, are an excellent choice, but if money was no issue, I would opt to go with either the Abyzz (have seen it in action), or the Vectra.

Just my 2-cents, feel free to disagree...

 

[Jimbo662]

Have you looked at Waveline pumps?

 

[NeverlosT]

That is good input MP! So an AC pump will be more efficient just since you don't need to convert AC to DC. I guess I was under the impression that DC motors were more efficient after that conversion, but I need to read up on that.

I like the ability to control output since I will run two return pumps (redundancy) turned down a good bit so they are each running at about 2/3 of their capacity.

I have used reeflo AC pumps on my last three systems, and they are outstanding, but looooouuud and that darn seal goes once every year or two.

I am trying to keep noise to an absolute minimum on the new build.

The DC pumps also seem to consume less wattage for a given flow rating.

For example the vectra consumes 130 Watts and puts out 3100gph
While an Iwaki MD100RLT consumes 370 Watts and puts out 2200gph
Reeflo Snapper/Dart is about 105 Watts and puts out 2600gph or 3600gph (depending if its a snapper or dart impeller)
Panworld 250PS consumes 390 Watts and puts out 1900gph.

Compared to all of those the vectra seems to win since it is quieter, smaller, controllable, and draws less voltage than most while putting out more water than most.

Anyhow, more on topic, between the listed DC pumps, which rules and why? COST is included in the comparison, so far the winner seems to be ecotech...

 

[NeverlosT]

Have you looked at Waveline pumps?

I consider waveline, Jebao, and Reef Octopus Water Blasters to be in their own category that is less expensive and I think lower quality than the pumps listed above.

Dont get me wrong, my ATI internal skimmer is run by a Jebao 6000 pump right now, but for my main return pumps that may be mounted externally, I want something a bit more high quality (I have had Jebao DC pumps leak from the volute when run externally).

To be fair and include Waveline info, here are the stats for the DC12000
DC12000 Apex Ready DC Pump - Waveline (3170 GPH)
$300

• Input: 1.5" Male MPT
• Output: 1.25" Male MPT
• Max Flow: 3170 GPH
• Max Head: 22.96 Feet
• Wattage: 139 watt at full speed (150w including adapter)
• Input: DC24v 5.8A
• Dimensions: 7.0" x 4.17" x 5.78"

 

[dangros]

There is also a significant noise/vibration difference between the Jebao/Waveline class of pumps and the Red Dragon/Vectras. This most informative for me

I would buy a Vectra L1 right this second if only it were compatible with my Apex. ticks me off that @EcoTech Marine chose to forego compatibility. For that reason, I am leaning towards one of the red dragons.

 

[gcarroll]

As many know, I have criticized DC pumps in the past for use as a return pump. The primary reason is that because I feel they typically provide more points of failure. There is no way in heck that I would ever put my return pump on my Apex. Controlling the Vectra on an Apex gives you 5 points of failure. That's not cool IMO.

Living in CA, DC pumps are common place.

I have several friends with RD3s, and they love them. They are silent and powerful.

I have friends with Vectras. They are silent and powerful.

I have friends with Abyzz. They are silent and powerful.

It seems that the Abyzz is the best of the bunch at conquering head pressure. The more pressure/head, the more the Abyzz separates itself from the other 2. Plus the Abyzz has that 10 year warranty which shows that they are very confident in their product. I went with Abyzz.

I recently got to preview a new DC pump coming to market that will also be competing with these listed so the selection is getting harder.

 

[NeverlosT]

That is a great video and good input.

Greg, could you elaborate on why you wouldn't want your return pump on your apex? I have run my return pumps on my apex for as long as Apex's have been around without issue.

The apex is a point of failure, sure, but in my experience it is no more vulnerable to random failure than a GFCI or the pump itself.

That is great first hand info on the Abyzz, would you say that you consider it (at almost three times the price of the Vectra L1) to be worth the money?

Thanks!

 

[gcarroll]

That is a great video and good input.

Greg, could you elaborate on why you wouldn't want your return pump on your apex? I have run my return pumps on my apex for as long as Apex's have been around without issue.

The apex is a point of failure, sure, but in my experience it is no more vulnerable to random failure than a GFCI or the pump itself.

That is great first hand info on the Abyzz, would you say that you consider it (at almost three times the price of the Vectra L1) to be worth the money?

Thanks!

When I design a system I try to limit points of failure. I define points of failure as components that can fail and cause the pump to fail.

With a typical DC Pump on an Apex of any of these parts fail, flow comes to a halt.
Pump motor
Pump controller
Pump power supply
Apex power bar
Apex controller
*gfci outlet
*circuit breaker
Now individually, each component has a low probability of failing however as you continue to add all of these components up the probability rises significantly since it only takes one component of the group to fail.

I typically put my return pumps and flow pumps on separate circuits to further decrease the chances of being without flow.

I actually chose the Abyzz A200 which is only comparable to the RD3 230w. The Vectra L1 was really not one of the pumps on my radar. Had there been an XL1, it may have been considered.

The Abyzz, like the RD3 has only two points of failure. It has the pump and the controller. No power supply since they are not low voltage.

 

[NeverlosT]

Roger that Greg. Good points.

I did notice that the Vectra is 36V.

I also saw a video where they measured heat on the pump, power supply, and controller and it was significant. I wanted to ask people if they have had any issues running the Vectra externally (overheating) or internally (overheating the tank). The pump was sitting at 40 deg c, so two of those sitting in a sump would definitely heat your water up.

I wonder if the RD3 or Abyzz get similarly hot on the pump body? I know that they are high voltage but they are also consuming considerable power which must be converted to water movement and heat.

Currently I am planning to run two Vectra L1's externally to run a 300g system, but I am considering the 80W RD3 instead. I like running pumps externally to keep from heating the water.

 

[numsie]

Have you looked at Waveline pumps?

As far as I am concerned Waveline is junk, I went through 3 of them in year and a half, all burned out. I now am the owner of a Vectra, time will tell, I've had it since they first came out.

 

[Rodneyri]

As far as I am concerned Waveline is junk, I went through 3 of them in year and a half, all burned out. I now am the owner of a Vectra, time will tell, I've had it since they first came out.

Same expereince here...wouldnt buy one ever again.

Using the Royal Exclusive 80w for the past year and I highly recommend it, dead quiet, easy to use, can dial in the return very easily with these pumps. Built like a tank aswell - I would buy one again.

Havent used the Vectra so cant comment.

 

[Eric G]

Something to think about,Abyzz comes with a 10 year warranty.

 

[aereaus]

I really like the m1 thats just personal opinion though -- wouldnt care to get into an argument over which is superior.

 

[Wesus]

. You cannot beat the efficiency of a fixed speed ac induction motor any other piece you add to the chain reduced efficiency.

Actually DC pumps are more efficient IMO. You are forgetting amount of heat produced by AC pumps

 

[143MPCo]

Actually DC pumps are more efficient IMO. You are forgetting amount of heat produced by AC pumps

Haha, you are right about the heat being a factor.
I just elected not to note it in my post.

 

[s2nhle]

I love the red dragon.

 

[rmchoi]

Here are 3 observations, having recently replaced a Blue Line 40HDX pressure pump for the DC Vectra L1, specifically to reduce pump (and fan) noise. First, the pump is quiet, almost silent. This alone justified the change for me.

There were concerns about flow reduction. Going from a pressure pump to a DC pump, I anticipated about 40% flow reduction from my plumbing configuration which serves DT and two remote refugiums. The actual flow loss was 30-35%, better than what I thought.

The ability to adjust the system flow rate is great benefit. Even though I have it connected to Reeflink, I don't see much benefit, unless it it being used for a closed loop circulation. Then the connectivity would be an excellent benefit to program various flow control throughout the day and night.

At initial Vectra L1 start up, there was about a +1 degree water temperature increase. The pump felt very warm (less than hot) to the touch. Oddly after running it a few weeks, the pump temperature has decreased. It feels just warm with less than 1/2 degree additional heat to the water. Not sure what made this temperature drop, but I like how cool it runs now. By the way, I'm running the Vectra at 55%.

The Vectra has been a nice surprise. It exceeded my expectations. We will see if durability turns out to be as good.

Here is what the Vectra looks like on my system. Ignore the way its connected to my sump. It was a modified with 3 inputs going into the Vectra to make it work with my Lifereef sump. Let me know if there is anything else you like to know about the pump.

 

[60squared]

holy cow the very cheapest abyzz return pump is 1300 bones. all the way up to 2400. I just dont see how you could justify it.

 

[crayon]

We have run RD3 DC pumps on our main system both the 50 w and 80 w for the past 2.5 years with no issue. I appreciate their ease of being able to disassemble as we found that gfo particles that broke down would make their way into the housing and gum up the mag drive so we had to clean them every two months or so. Discontinued gfo, and we have not had to clean them since.
Our current main circ pump is the 80 watt which out runs our sump capacity so we have it dialled down to about 75% . Eventually we will get these on our Apex, but for now they are stand alone.
Customer service from Royal Exclusiv has been awesome, as we had an issue with the first 80 watt pump which required they replace it twice. A bad batch of controllers was the culprit and once we got through that, the pump has run constantly for 1.5 years without an issue.
Our 80 watt runs the circ pump on our 175 plus a reactor with a head height of about 5'. Originally we had the 50 watt pump for that tank, and it was just slightly undersized. Although the 80 is a bit too much, I am happy with it and will not change.
Currently, in our sump, we have the RD3 DC 80 watt for the 175 gal, plus a RD3 50 w DC for the 30 gallon tank and a RD3 50 w for the skimmer. (The sump is a Royal Exclusiv dreambox so built for the red dragon pumps.). We get zero noise from the pumps, but we do get a temperature bump in the summer of about 3 degrees which is acceptable and not necessarily the fault of the pumps, as our house is hard to cool in the summer generally.
We have a new build planned, for which we have bought several pumps already, including the Vectra L1 which will power a closed loop. This was done because of the programmability. It will have less than 3' of head height, so no issue on that side. The main return pump will be the Abyzz A200 purchased at MACNA last year because the head height will be over 16'. I liked the fact that this pump is also programmable, however with the addition of the closed loop, will probably not need this feature, however it was the only DC pump I felt confident would be able to handle the head height and give us reliability. Plus the 10 year warranty sealed the deal. Plus no noise. Plus peace of mind. Our skimmer for the new system will be a Royal Exclusiv skimmer with a RD3 DC 50 watt pump.
However as we have not got the Abyzz or the Eco Tech on line yet, I cannot comment on their performance. I do leave my systems unattended for a day or 2 because of travel so knowing the reliability of the equipment is important. When we purchased the Abyzz we talked to the reps first hand and could see and hear the pump in action. It is an expensive pump, but it is the key to our new system working properly so was not an area I would compromise.
Note about head heights: not everyone measures the head height of a pump the same, so always ask and make sure you are comparing apples to apples. This was an issue with a Vertex pump we purchased (not DC) which got used for about a month.