Dinoflagellates Again!

[HaloPhenom27]

I need help. I have a 13.5 Nano that has gotten the dreaded Dino. This is the 2nd time in my first six months and it has about drove me out of the saltwater and reefkeeping hobby and back into freshwater. I am not a quitter though.

I have an action plan in place for combating the Dino so that is not really my problem. In that plan it says to have a protein skimmer or filter sock. I run neither on my nano which is an AIO. The sump chambers are too small for an effective skimmer.

My question is, how small in microns does a filter sock need to be for collecting the decaying dino that will eventually be in the water column as I go through my process? If anyone can answer this I would greatly appreciate it.

I do have plans to run an external refugium and will be adding a protein skimmer to that but that won't come for another 2-4 weeks and I need to get on this plan of action now.

 

[Hemmdog]

Dinos are from low nutrients. Your plan of action entails more nutrient export methods. I would go a different route. What are your parameters and let’s see some pics of these dino’s.

 

[HaloPhenom27]

Dinos are from low nutrients. Your plan of action entails more nutrient export methods. I would go a different route. What are your parameters and let’s see some pics of these dino’s.

My Nitrates are at 8. My Alk is at 9 (161.1). My Phosphates are at .25, Calcium 380, PH is at 8, Ammonia 0, Magnesium 1300. Salinity 35. I will have to get some pics but I know it is Dino as I have ID'd it through a microscope.

I am not trying to export nutrients in my plan of action which came from Elegant Corals. I would essentially be combating it through biodiversity with bacteria.

 

[sixty_reefer]

My Nitrates are at 8. My Alk is at 9 (161.1). My Phosphates are at .25, Calcium 380, PH is at 8, Ammonia 0, Magnesium 1300. Salinity 35. I will have to get some pics but I know it is Dino as I have ID'd it through a microscope.

Witch species is it?

I am not trying to export nutrients in my plan of action which came from Elegant Corals. I would essentially be combating it through biodiversity with bacteria.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What species is it that you got?

 

[Josh Kraft]

In a small tank like that, I would try to throw a UV on there. Very easy/cheap to get an overpowered UV for 13.5g. A Green Killing Machine 9W would be plenty. And it wouldn't be something you don't need to run full-time.

Throw that in there, blow the dinos off the rock at night, and your UV will kill it along with the dinos that go into the water column.

Do you know if your nutrients (mainly phos/nitrates) bottomed out at some point? Typically the onset happens when this happens.

 

[Josh Kraft]

To your original question, my normal red sea sock (225 micron) caught the dinos fine. I would siphon it off of my rock directly down to my filter sock.

 

[HaloPhenom27]

What species is it that you got?

It appears to be Ostreopsis.

 

[HaloPhenom27]

In a small tank like that, I would try to throw a UV on there. Very easy/cheap to get an overpowered UV for 13.5g. A Green Killing Machine 9W would be plenty. And it wouldn't be something you don't need to run full-time.

Throw that in there, blow the dinos off the rock at night, and your UV will kill it along with the dinos that go into the water column.

Do you know if your nutrients (mainly phos/nitrates) bottomed out at some point? Typically the onset happens when this happens.

A UV sterilizer is coming and my Phosphate bottomed out to 0 when I started running GFO. I stopped running my GFO due to that.

 

[sixty_reefer]

It appears to be Ostreopsis.

Any fish dying yet? How long you had it for?

 

[HaloPhenom27]

Any fish dying yet? How long you had it for?

No. I only have 2 juvenile Clowns. I have a Trochus Snail, an Astrea Snail, a Fighting Conch, 4 Cortez hermits, and 3 small coral frags. None of my CUC has died but they (Dinos) just showed up 2 day's ago.

 

[sixty_reefer]

No. I only have 2 juvenile Clowns. I have a Trochus Snail, an Astrea Snail, a Fighting Conch, 4 Cortez hermits, and 3 small coral frags. None of my CUC has died but they (Dinos) just showed up 2 day's ago.

If your id is correct I would urge you to get a quarantine set up ASAP. Hi had the same species in the past and it killed a lot of my stock as I didn’t acted fast enough. This particular species is not photosynthetic so black out won’t do anything. In the next few days weeks they will deplete your tank from oxygen, this is were your livestock will be at risk and start gasping for oxygen. If you don’t act fast you will see your fish and clean up slowly dying. Some of these subspecies can be very toxic also for humans so be carful and avoid getting your hands in the tank.

It took me 6 moths to get rid of them but won the war at the end.

Protein scum dosed back in the tank every day.

Phytoplankton

Any zooplankton that you can get your hands on Copepods and rotifers

I didn’t try peroxide but it probably be a good call on your particular case or a ozone reactor, your tank might be to small for ozone do.

 

[HaloPhenom27]

If your id is correct I would urge you to get a quarantine set up ASAP. Hi had the same species in the past and it killed a lot of my stock as I didn’t acted fast enough. This particular species is not photosynthetic so black out won’t do anything. In the next few days weeks they will deplete your tank from oxygen, this is were your livestock will be at risk and start gasping for oxygen. If you don’t act fast you will see your fish and clean up slowly dying. Some of these subspecies can be very toxic also for humans so be carful and avoid getting your hands in the tank.

It took me 6 moths to get rid of them but won the war at the end.

Protein scum dosed back in the tank every day.

Phytoplankton

Any zooplankton that you can get your hands on Copepods and rotifers

I didn’t try peroxide but it probably be a good call on your particular case or a ozone reactor, your tank might be to small for ozone do.

Thanks brother for all the info. Hydrogen Peroxide is a small part of the plan possibly. I do have a healthy supply of Copepods as I have added them routinely and I also dose Phyto Feast. I am adding a wooden airstone as a part of the plan to get oxygen to the water naturally by running a line to outside.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Thanks brother for all the info. Hydrogen Peroxide is a small part of the plan possibly. I do have a healthy supply of Copepods as I have added them routinely and I also dose Phyto Feast. I am adding a wooden airstone as a part of the plan to get oxygen to the water naturally by running a line to outside.

I think you have a good plan, outcompete is definitely a good way to go, there is a bacteria that forms in your protein skimmer after 5 to 6 days that does wonders on this specie (read it on a Spanish university paper that made some research on this specie) am thinking peroxide will be good as it is a great oxydizer and kill the free floating cells, if you could set a doser for 1ml every two hours it could just do some magic. Good luck hope you get rid of it and back stronger than ever

 

[HaloPhenom27]

I think you have a good plan, outcompete is definitely a good way to go, there is a bacteria that forms in your protein skimmer after 5 to 6 days that does wonders on this specie (read it on a Spanish university paper that made some research on this specie) am thinking peroxide will be good as it is a great oxydizer and kill the free floating cells, if you could set a doser for 1ml every two hours it could just do some magic. Good luck hope you get rid of it and back stronger than ever

You have been a ton of help. I am dedicated to this. I research and study in all of my free time. And I stay on top of my tank. My plan came from several trusted sources.

 

[sixty_reefer]

You have been a ton of help. I am dedicated to this. I research and study in all of my free time. And I stay on top of my tank. My plan came from several trusted sources.

What doesn’t break us, make us stronger

No worries mate, this small set backs just give us more experience just like you i had a rough start and I’ve been thrown all the nasty things you can think of but with a little time, study and dedication anything can be done in this hobby.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You will have to focus on nutrients. I typically add hydrogen peroxide daily as a precaution.
Are you by chance adding nopox or fuel for coral? How bright are your lights?

 

[HaloPhenom27]

I am not using No

You will have to focus on nutrients. I typically add hydrogen peroxide daily as a precaution.
Are you by chance adding nopox or fuel for coral? How bright are your lights?

I am not using NoPox or Fuel. The only coral I have are 3 small soft coral frags as the tank will only have soft corals. My lighting is moderate as it is a soft coral tank so I don't need high powered lights for it.

 

[rkpetersen]

An absolutely fantastic way to reduce the dino bioload is to blow it all up into the water, and then do several filtrations through a 1 micron filter sock into a bucket. It's stunning how well and fast this works.
It's basically like dialysis for tank water. Be sure not to accidentally throw the filtered water away; this isn't a water change.
Combine it with raising your nitrate and phosphate levels (if undetectable).
IM makes a drop-in UV sterilizer that will fit in the back sump section of many AIOs.
You can also carefully use an agent like Dino X, or H2O2, to help keep dinos from coming back.

 

[HaloPhenom27]

An absolutely fantastic way to reduce the dino bioload is to blow it all up into the water, and then do several filtrations through a 1 micron filter sock. It's stunning how well and fast this works.
It's basically like dialysis for tank water. Be sure not to accidentally throw the filtered water away; this isn't a water change.
Combine it with raising your nitrate and phosphate levels (if undetectable).
You can also carefully use an agent like Dino X, or H2O2, to help keep dinos from coming back.

Trying to fight it naturally and not use things like H202 and Dino X. I have never had ultra low nitrate readings and my Phosphate has always remained at .25 outside of when I hooked up a GFO reactor and the went down to 0 for a few weeks before I disconnected it because 0 is bad.

To my understanding, blowing it into the water column is exactly why a UV helps to take care of it. It then has to pass through the UV which kills it.

I did not know they had 1 micron filter socks. I have been told to get a 200-250 micron filter sock. And yet others have said to NOT filter it through a filter sock. My question with that is, how small in microns does a filter sock need to be in order to catch Dino? If it is too big it will pass straight through and if it is too small it will catch the salt. I am ceasing weekly water changes as a part of my plan because I am trying to dirty up the tank more. I noticed that doing weekly water changes only made it worst.