Dirtying Up a Tank

[Cetus]

Hey there,

I had/have this exact issue with my tank and it is 5ish months old. Sent in an ICP test and found it is contaminated with heavy metals, the worst of which being copper, all from an unknown source. I also started my tank with 100% dry rock and sand and I suspect the source is the rock or sand.

I would send in an ICP to see what you may really have going on in your water. I use ATI because they test for the broadest spectrum of parameter and contaminants, and they also test your RODI water.

My journey with my nightmare tank can be found here:

About to Quit

TLDR (07/04/21): After a full spectrum of troubleshooting, I sent in an ATI ICP test. Results can be found in post #366, but the short story is I have heavy metal contamination (copper, aluminum, tin, zinc, and manganese if I remember correctly) in my water stemming from an unknown source. I...

www.reef2reef.com

I sincerely hope you don’t end up with the same issues I have and hopefully your tank gets up and moving soon.

Best of luck!

I’d recommend doing an ICP test.

what’s your water source?

Currently awaiting the results of an ICP Test from TRITON. Sent the package a couple days ago so it should be ready soon. Not sure how long it takes but I've read maybe a week?

 

[terraincognita]

Currently awaiting the results of an ICP Test from TRITON. Sent the package a couple days ago so it should be ready soon. Not sure how long it takes but I've read maybe a week?

I got my results about 2 weeks after sending in the package so yeah probably about a week to arrive and be processed in, and then another week for the results back.

 

[fryman]

Just looks like the OP never installed any light. A fish only system with low/ambient light can look pretty clean. Algae needs light, most people in this forum have coral and lots of light + nutrients = lots of algae. But if you never turn on the lights you won't get much algae.

Fish deaths could be due to disease/lack of QT. Inverts have no food. But ICP test couldn't hurt, maybe there's copper or something. Algae would still grow, so I'm not convinced the "sterile" look is related.

 

[Miami Reef]

Just looks like the OP never installed any light. A fish only system with low/ambient light can look pretty clean. Algae needs light, most people in this forum have coral and lots of light + nutrients = lots of algae. But if you never turn on the lights you won't get much algae.

Fish deaths could be due to disease/lack of QT. Inverts have no food. But ICP test couldn't hurt, maybe there's copper or something. Algae would still grow, so I'm not convinced the "sterile" look is related.

You have a point. Freshwater tanks that use tap water have super clean tanks, but a few cups of tap water in my tank would spur huge amounts of diatoms.

 

[fryman]

You have a point. Freshwater tanks that use tap water have super clean tanks, but a few cups of tap water in my tank would spur huge amounts of diatoms.

If there's light and nutrients, no contaminant short of 1:10 bleach would prevent ALL algae.

Just install a light and in a week that tank will get plenty "dirty".

 

[Cetus]

Alright I got the results of the ICP back and I'm not sure how exactly to parse it. Help would greatly be appreciated to see if anything stands out. The lithium maybe? Could that be what's causing death?

Triton Lab Showroom - Explore this water test results and click on the image above.

Someone wants to show you the water test results and shared this link to the evaluation. Click on the image above to explore the water test results.

www.triton-lab.de

 

[fryman]

Alright I got the results of the ICP back and I'm not sure how exactly to parse it. Help would greatly be appreciated to see if anything stands out. The lithium maybe? Could that be what's causing death?

Triton Lab Showroom - Explore this water test results and click on the image above.

Someone wants to show you the water test results and shared this link to the evaluation. Click on the image above to explore the water test results.

www.triton-lab.de

No, there's nothing I see in that report to explain fish deaths. Your lithium level is relatively typical and not toxic. You have high nutrients and silicon so if you do turn on the lights expect a lot of diatoms and algae. If you are staying fish-only for now there's really nothing in your parameters to be concerned about. Triton recommends water changes but this is just their default recommendation. Also I think it's likely the elevated lithium is from your salt mix so a water change won't help.

I think you may be looking at this wrong. If you are having fish deaths likely cause(es) ime are:

Nutrition
Disease
Aggression
(in no particular order)

I do not see much details on how/when your fish died so I can't really say what happened.

If you are planning to add lights/coral at some point you will need to address the nutrients in your tank. You have alot of phosphate and silicon (no idea on nitrates since Triton doesn't test this). Silicon could just be from your new-ish rock and sand. Or you might need to change your rodi filters if they are old. Phosphate is from your food. Switch to frozen (assuming you use pellets) and/or add gfo. But given that you do not have algae issues, I think this is all kind of moot.

 

[Cetus]

No, there's nothing I see in that report to explain fish deaths. Your lithium level is relatively typical and not toxic. You have high nutrients and silicon so if you do turn on the lights expect a lot of diatoms and algae. If you are staying fish-only for now there's really nothing in your parameters to be concerned about. Triton recommends water changes but this is just their default recommendation. Also I think it's likely the elevated lithium is from your salt mix so a water change won't help.

I think you may be looking at this wrong. If you are having fish deaths likely cause(es) ime are:

Nutrition
Disease
Aggression
(in no particular order)

I do not see much details on how/when your fish died so I can't really say what happened.

If you are planning to add lights/coral at some point you will need to address the nutrients in your tank. You have alot of phosphate and silicon (no idea on nitrates since Triton doesn't test this). Silicon could just be from your new-ish rock and sand. Or you might need to change your rodi filters if they are old. Phosphate is from your food. Switch to frozen (assuming you use pellets) and/or add gfo. But given that you do not have algae issues, I think this is all kind of moot.

Hrm... Well in this case I'm at a loss on what to do. I do plan on it becoming a reef tank but later down the line when fish are doing fine. Not sure if this is good news because there's nothing wrong or bad news because I don't know what's going on.

Should I just put my Royal Gramma back in the tank and continue as normal? Well, adding much more rock first of course. I guess my main goal rn is giving it more life atm.

 

[terraincognita]

	Ba-Group	Analysis	Setpoint
Ba	Barium	38 µg/l	0 - 10 µg/l	▲
Be	Beryllium	0 µg/l	0 µg/l	▲

	Si-Group	Analysis	Setpoint
Si	Silicon	697 µg/l	0 - 200 µg/l	▲

	Nutrient-Group	Analysis	Setpoint
P	Phosphorus	64 µg/l	6 - 23 µg/l	▲
PO4	Phosphate	0.19584 mg/l	0.018 - 0.07 mg/l	▲

That PO4 is a bit high. Not too high.

What's your actual nitrates and Ammonia levels though? Normally spiked PO4 can mean spiked Ammonia and Nitrate as well,(Definitely not always) but seeing as that's the process of nitrification.

Do you have access to any other test kits besides API?

Also that silicon is unusual.

What's your water source again?

Are you mixing yourself?

I read back through and got my answers.

Not trying to be a wet blanket but definitely don't just continue on and add more fish hoping something's different.

Unless whatever is killing your fish in your water, has been A. Naturally removed in the case of Ammonia. or B. You did something to remove it.

Nothing will change the next time you add fish.

I understand some loss, but such big loss is different.

Also no Algae growth even under basic White lights should still happen for sure....

Idk something's still off to me.

There's also no test of certain contaminants in that Triton test result.

I really like the analysis of this company.

Where To Buy

Interested in buying an ICP Analysis test kit at your local store? Below is a list of authorized dealers in the US. California Pacifica Fish Doctor 1724B Palmetto AvePacifica, CA [email protected] Colorado Lakewood Stone Aquatics 6950 W Jefferson Ave, Suite 200 Lakewood, CO 80235...

www.icp-analysis.com

You can get their test kits on Amazon.

IMPO Either something's super off with your fish stores water? Or something leaked into that tank somehow?

Idk.

 

[Cetus]

	Ba-Group	Analysis	Setpoint
Ba	Barium	38 µg/l	0 - 10 µg/l	▲
Be	Beryllium	0 µg/l	0 µg/l	▲

	Si-Group	Analysis	Setpoint
Si	Silicon	697 µg/l	0 - 200 µg/l	▲

	Nutrient-Group	Analysis	Setpoint
P	Phosphorus	64 µg/l	6 - 23 µg/l	▲
PO4	Phosphate	0.19584 mg/l	0.018 - 0.07 mg/l	▲

That PO4 is a bit high. Not too high.

What's your actual nitrates and Ammonia levels though? Normally spiked PO4 can mean spiked Ammonia and Nitrate as well,(Definitely not always) but seeing as that's the process of nitrification.

Do you have access to any other test kits besides API?

Also that silicon is unusual.

What's your water source again?

Are you mixing yourself?

I read back through and got my answers.

Not trying to be a wet blanket but definitely don't just continue on and add more fish hoping something's different.

Unless whatever is killing your fish in your water, has been A. Naturally removed in the case of Ammonia. or B. You did something to remove it.

Nothing will change the next time you add fish.

I understand some loss, but such big loss is different.

Also no Algae growth even under basic White lights should still happen for sure....

Idk something's still off to me.

There's also no test of certain contaminants in that Triton test result.

I really like the analysis of this company.

Where To Buy

Interested in buying an ICP Analysis test kit at your local store? Below is a list of authorized dealers in the US. California Pacifica Fish Doctor 1724B Palmetto AvePacifica, CA [email protected] Colorado Lakewood Stone Aquatics 6950 W Jefferson Ave, Suite 200 Lakewood, CO 80235...

www.icp-analysis.com

You can get their test kits on Amazon.

IMPO Either something's super off with your fish stores water? Or something leaked into that tank somehow?

Idk.

Yeah I'm just... Huh... Maybe I should do a massive water change and start using RO/DI from my own place. I genuinely don't know what's going on and it's very frustrating.

 

[terraincognita]

Yeah I'm just... Huh... Maybe I should do a massive water change and start using RO/DI from my own place. I genuinely don't know what's going on and it's very frustrating.

If you're in SFO I'm sure there's probably 5 LFS within a decent distance from you

try another LFS for water. I'd do a 50% and let it settle for a week and see what happens if it were me.

 

[Cetus]

If you're in SFO I'm sure there's probably 5 LFS within a decent distance from you

try another LFS for water. I'd do a 50% and let it settle for a week and see what happens if it were me.

I do actually have a unit with a TDS meter so I could try that potentially? How should I see if there are improvements? Maybe add a new bacteria product and see if I get growth?

 

[terraincognita]

I do actually have a unit with a TDS meter so I could try that potentially? How should I see if there are improvements? Maybe add a new bacteria product and see if I get growth?

with the 50% water change and the live rock you’re adding you should start to see life growing.

that LR will have all kinds of potential beneficial hitchikers.

And if you start getting some uglies going then you should be okay

 

[Cetus]

with the 50% water change and the live rock you’re adding you should start to see life growing.

that LR will have all kinds of potential beneficial hitchikers.

And if you start getting some uglies going then you should be okay

70 lbs of dry rock then add 10 lbs of live rock from an lfs later?

 

[Cetus]

with the 50% water change and the live rock you’re adding you should start to see life growing.

that LR will have all kinds of potential beneficial hitchikers.

And if you start getting some uglies going then you should be okay

Another thing somewhat unrelated but I've been looking for ways to make water changes easier since if they're easier I think I'd do them much more.


I've heard good things about this but I always want to ask first before making any purchase. It seems to connect to a faucet to get water out. Would you recc this for a tank of this size?

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Another thing somewhat unrelated but I've been looking for ways to make water changes easier since if they're easier I think I'd do them much more.


I've heard good things about this but I always want to ask first before making any purchase. It seems to connect to a faucet to get water out. Would you recc this for a tank of this size?

Hey there too bad ICP didnt reveal something more

On your question about water changes....
I bought that unit thinking it would be helpful but after using it a couple times i have never used it since. I found it to be cumbersome and depending how far away your faucet is it can be difficult to manage.

I invested in a small pump (return pump) and some tubing. So i can pump the water out into the sink or buckets and then pump the new saltwater in from my mixing bin. I also use a plastic clamp to hold it so i can multi task a little. Beware not to forget though or you will have a big mess lol

 

[Paul B]

I would walk down to that bridge you have there and collect some mud and rocks from under it and throw it in your tank.
That is what I do in New York.

 

[terraincognita]

70 lbs of dry rock then add 10 lbs of live rock from an lfs later?

Sorry was under the assumption you had LR bring shipped in.

Was hoping it was live gulf rock.

sounds like not though.

got any friends in the hobby? If so have them give you like a 1lb piece

you don’t need 10lbs

even technically a single palm sized rock would do.

just trying to get some established bacteria inside and possible other hitch hikers like, worms And algae or

 

[terraincognita]

Sorry was under the assumption you had LR bring shipped in.

Was hoping it was live gulf rock.

sounds like not though.

got any friends in the hobby? If so have them give you like a 1lb piece

you don’t need 10lbs

even technically a single palm sized rock would do.

just trying to get some established bacteria inside and possible other hitch hikers like, worms And algae or

not even necessary though.

just do that WC, IMPO.

not using water from the same fish store/

also if that LFS is in your city, realize their water source is the same as yours.

so possibly unless you have a nice RO/DI unit you’re gonna be ending up with similar issues?

unless they’re using NSW? But I imagine not at all.

If they have a NSW mix and you haven’t used that You could give that a try too.

 

[Cetus]

not even necessary though.

just do that WC, IMPO.

not using water from the same fish store/

also if that LFS is in your city, realize their water source is the same as yours.

so possibly unless you have a nice RO/DI unit you’re gonna be ending up with similar issues?

unless they’re using NSW? But I imagine not at all.

If they have a NSW mix and you haven’t used that You could give that a try too.

What's NSW exactly? New Salt Water?

I do have an RO/DI unit with a TDS meter that reads zero whenever I use it. It's practically brand new too. Even have a pump to make sure it's working at proper efficacy.
I don't have much options on what to do now so I think I should just do a 50% water change and then work on dirtying up the tank. The unexplained fish deaths though... I'm not sure if going at it without finding out the issue is a good idea but it could also just be a streak of bad luck or they might've been obtained from cyanide? I don't know for certain hm...

Buy much more dry rock, 50% water change using my RO/DI filter instead, look for live rock wherever, readd fish if things look ok. Maybe I could add a few inverts first just as canaries before adding fish? Think this is a good course of action?