Disease ID

[Mako19]

Hello everyone

I am new to this forum, but I have been keeping an eye out on these forums and see many knowledgeable fish keepers on here. That’s why I am asking for some help identifying this disease to know which route I should go for treatment.

My tank is a 300-gallon Fish only with live rock and inverts such as snails and hermits. I would also like to add that my tank is fairly new, about 6 weeks in, and yes, I know I started a little early with livestock.

Unfortunately, I have made a mistake by not quarantining the fish, and my Hippo blue tang shows many white spots. I am unsure if it is Ick or, hopefully, not velvet…


My current treatment approach is Poly Lab Medic which was highly recommended by my LFS, and feeding fish with selcon. I have read mixed reviews about this treatment but I figured it’s worth a shot to prevent breaking down my tank. I would like to add that all my fish are currently still eating.


I have uploaded a photo below.

my perimeters are
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-10ppm
Temp 80F

livestock
Stars & Stripes Puffer
Clown Tigger
Hippo Blue tang
2 Moray eels
2 Volitan Lionfish
4 turbo snails
A good amount of small snails
15 small hermits

 

[MnFish1]

I do not think many people here would 'like' polyp lab medic. I do not believe feeding selcon helps in a disease situation (and - only IMHO - probably not in any situations). IMHO - you need to take the fish out of your tank, (you do not need to 'break it down' - you can use fish traps - and treat the fish with copper etc in a hospital tank. I know you don't want to hear this - but its the best way in the long run - (leave your display fallow for76 days - since I assume you do not want to increase the temp to 81

 

[Mako19]

I do not think many people here would 'like' polyp lab medic. I do not believe feeding selcon helps in a disease situation (and - only IMHO - probably not in any situations). IMHO - you need to take the fish out of your tank, (you do not need to 'break it down' - you can use fish traps - and treat the fish with copper etc in a hospital tank. I know you don't want to hear this - but its the best way in the long run - (leave your display fallow for76 days - since I assume you do not want to increase the temp to 81

Thank you for the information. Does it look like velvet or ich ?

Also why wouldn’t I raise the temp to 81 and what benefits would it bring ?

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you for the information. Does it look like velvet or ich ?

it looks a little like both (to me)there are some large spots - but also the dusting type. Is there any breathing problem - etc? Either way - the treatment would be copper for (fish) in the tank

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you for the information. Does it look like velvet or ich ?

Also why wouldn’t I raise the temp to 81 and what benefits would it bring ?

PS - To me it looks more like Ich - and second - If you have inverts - sometimes they do not tolerate it as well - depending on where you temp is now. Either way - you take the fish out - and leave the tank fallow. The fallow period can be shorter - at the higher temperature - according to some protocols

 

[Mako19]

PS - To me it looks more like Ich - and second - If you have inverts - sometimes they do not tolerate it as well - depending on where you temp is now. Either way - you take the fish out - and leave the tank fallow. The fallow period can be shorter - at the higher temperature - according to some protocolsI have 2 fairly large Morey eels I don’t know how they would do in a small QT. Any other options ? It will be a nightmare catching the fish with the Live-rock in the tank.

I have 2 large Moray eels in the tank now. I don’t know how they would do in a small QT. Any other in tank options ? It will be a nightmare to catch the fish with the live rock in the tank.

I also don’t want to stress the fish out anymore then they are now since they are all currently eating and swimming fairly well.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello everyone

I am new to this forum, but I have been keeping an eye out on these forums and see many knowledgeable fish keepers on here. That’s why I am asking for some help identifying this disease to know which route I should go for treatment.

My tank is a 300-gallon Fish only with live rock and inverts such as snails and hermits. I would also like to add that my tank is fairly new, about 6 weeks in, and yes, I know I started a little early with livestock.

Unfortunately, I have made a mistake by not quarantining the fish, and my Hippo blue tang shows many white spots. I am unsure if it is Ick or, hopefully, not velvet…


My current treatment approach is Poly Lab Medic which was highly recommended by my LFS, and feeding fish with selcon. I have read mixed reviews about this treatment but I figured it’s worth a shot to prevent breaking down my tank. I would like to add that all my fish are currently still eating.


I have uploaded a photo below.

my perimeters are
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-10ppm
Temp 80F

livestock
Stars & Stripes Puffer
Clown Tigger
Hippo Blue tang
2 Moray eels
2 Volitan Lionfish
4 turbo snails
A good amount of small snails
15 small hermits

These are idiopathic mucus plugs and likely cryptocaryon which is Marine Ich and a freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily. After dip, You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

Ramping up is not recommended. Increasing copper level slowly can allow the disease to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease. Add partial doses and get to the full treatment level as soon as possible.. I've heard people taking 5 days or more to reach full copper, and that is always a mistake. It is old information, based on using ionic copper. Copper doesn't work well until you get above 2 ppm, and then, it can take three days to slow/stop an infection.

 

[Mako19]

These are idiopathic mucus plugs and likely cryptocaryon which is Marine Ich and a freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily. After dip, place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 day (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

What are idiopathic mucus plugs ? And thank you for all the information !

 

[vetteguy53081]

What are idiopathic mucus plugs ? And thank you for all the information !

The little spores all over its body

 

[Mako19]

The little spores all over its body

So basically what I’m understanding is all those white spots are not ich they are a immune reaction from the ich correct ?

Also will Poly Lab Medic have any effect ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

So basically what I’m understanding is all those white spots are not ich they are a immune reaction from the ich correct ?

Also will Poly Lab Medic have any effect ?

The spores ARE associated with ich as mentioned
MEDIC is literally a peroxide salt and rarely works. A few years back I had a velvet outbreak and used it along with Ruby Rally pro and beat the velvet but question is - Which was it that helped as I believe the Ruby Rally was

 

[Mako19]

The spores ARE associated with ich as mentioned
MEDIC is literally a peroxide salt and rarely works. A few years back I had a velvet outbreak and used it along with Ruby Rally pro and beat the velvet but question is - Which was it that helped as I believe the Ruby Rally was

Is Ruby Rally Invert and Eel safe and can I safely use it with the Medic ?

I’m really trying to find options not to remove fish from the display.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is Ruby Rally Invert and Eel safe and can I safely use it with the Medic ?

I’m really trying to find options not to remove fish from the display.

Ruby should be and realize the avoidance for removal becomes RISK. If treatment has no effect- the problem will worsen

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is Ruby Rally Invert and Eel safe and can I safely use it with the Medic ?

I’m really trying to find options not to remove fish from the display.

This doesn't look like velvet at all. It is either ich or mucus plugs. Ich spots are usually smaller, and change location and change numbers day to day. Mucus plugs are larger and will stay in the same location and not vary is much in number. Ich will spread to the other fish, while mucus plugs are most common on tangs.

If it turns out to be ich, you might consider hyposalinity (you would have to remove your snails and other invertebrates for 75 days though).

Here is a write up I did on mucus plugs:

Idiopathic mucus plugs/cones: Fish sometimes develop excess mucus that excretes from the
producing skin cells and rather than spreading out along the body, rises up as a cone or a plug. These
presumable develop from some sort of skin irritation. If you do a skin scrape on them, all you see is
mucus. They do show up on dark colored fish more often, probably because the contrast makes them
easier to see. The cause(s) for this is unknown. In some cases, they just go away, in other cases, the fish
dies - but in those cases, it is probable that there was a secondary issue. There may be some correlation
between copper sulfate use, or a reaction to a previous skin infection. There is also some strong
correlation between this issue and the species of fish; surgeonfish, tetras and Anabantids are all known to
develop this. Many people misdiagnose these mucus plugs as Cryptocaryon or Lymphocystis, but the
plug or cone shape to the mucus is diagnostic to some degree.


Jay

 

[Mako19]

This doesn't look like velvet at all. It is either ich or mucus plugs. Ich spots are usually smaller, and change location and change numbers day to day. Mucus plugs are larger and will stay in the same location and not vary is much in number. Ich will spread to the other fish, while mucus plugs are most common on tangs.

If it turns out to be ich, you might consider hyposalinity (you would have to remove your snails and other invertebrates for 75 days though).

Here is a write up I did on mucus plugs:

Idiopathic mucus plugs/cones: Fish sometimes develop excess mucus that excretes from the
producing skin cells and rather than spreading out along the body, rises up as a cone or a plug. These
presumable develop from some sort of skin irritation. If you do a skin scrape on them, all you see is
mucus. They do show up on dark colored fish more often, probably because the contrast makes them
easier to see. The cause(s) for this is unknown. In some cases, they just go away, in other cases, the fish
dies - but in those cases, it is probable that there was a secondary issue. There may be some correlation
between copper sulfate use, or a reaction to a previous skin infection. There is also some strong
correlation between this issue and the species of fish; surgeonfish, tetras and Anabantids are all known to
develop this. Many people misdiagnose these mucus plugs as Cryptocaryon or Lymphocystis, but the
plug or cone shape to the mucus is diagnostic to some degree.


Jay

Thank you Jay ! Will hypo be safe with Eels ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay ! Will hypo be safe with Eels ?

Eels tolerate hypo as well as any fish (there are always some risk) and they tolerate it better than they do copper.
Jay

 

[MnFish1]

The little spores all over its body

Mucus plugs are not little spores. Mucus plugs are areas of prior damage. Spores are *(usually) considered infectious particles

 

[Mako19]

This doesn't look like velvet at all. It is either ich or mucus plugs. Ich spots are usually smaller, and change location and change numbers day to day. Mucus plugs are larger and will stay in the same location and not vary is much in number. Ich will spread to the other fish, while mucus plugs are most common on tangs.

If it turns out to be ich, you might consider hyposalinity (you would have to remove your snails and other invertebrates for 75 days though).

Here is a write up I did on mucus plugs:

Idiopathic mucus plugs/cones: Fish sometimes develop excess mucus that excretes from the
producing skin cells and rather than spreading out along the body, rises up as a cone or a plug. These
presumable develop from some sort of skin irritation. If you do a skin scrape on them, all you see is
mucus. They do show up on dark colored fish more often, probably because the contrast makes them
easier to see. The cause(s) for this is unknown. In some cases, they just go away, in other cases, the fish
dies - but in those cases, it is probable that there was a secondary issue. There may be some correlation
between copper sulfate use, or a reaction to a previous skin infection. There is also some strong
correlation between this issue and the species of fish; surgeonfish, tetras and Anabantids are all known to
develop this. Many people misdiagnose these mucus plugs as Cryptocaryon or Lymphocystis, but the
plug or cone shape to the mucus is diagnostic to some degree.


Jay

So update my blue tang is looking much better. All my fish are eating and swimming perfectly.

I noticed my Clown Trigger has a bit of a dusty appearance and has a few white growths on his ray fins almost looks like Lympho. His top ray was already torn from aggression from my Hippo Blue tang when the trigger was first added.

I have attached a photo below any ideas on a diagnosis ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So update my blue tang is looking much better. All my fish are eating and swimming perfectly.

I noticed my Clown Trigger has a bit of a dusty appearance and has a few white growths on his ray fins almost looks like Lympho. His top ray was already torn from aggression from my Hippo Blue tang when the trigger was first added.

I have attached a photo below any ideas on a diagnosis ?

That looks like ich to me. That must be one tough tang to have nicked the fin like that!

Jay

 

[Mako19]

That looks like ich to me. That must be one tough tang to have nicked the fin like that!

Jay

Oh yeah that blue tang is definitely not Dory lol

It looks like I’m having good results with the Poly Lab Medic. I’m going to give it the full 20 days and if I see any more signs of ich I will be removing the invert and running the DT Hypo.

I wanted to make sure it’s not velvet because I know velvet is not something you can wait and see.