DIY All-For-Reef Recipe from Tropic Marin! Thanks Zack!

[Shooter6]

I dose kalk by alkalinity (when I used it basically replacing all evap with kalk) but AFR doesn't change alk the way kalk does (directly) which is why I dosed them differently

It absolutely does change alk, though it takes 24-36hrs before seeing the full potency of the dose. This is why afr needs dose calibration over a week or two.
Dosing and testing to quickly can cause you to overshoot the desired level, but also allows higher stability since the drop will be slower.

 

[Shooter6]

Tropic Marin | Aquarium | Produktinformationen

Tropic Mairn - The aquatic life science company. Wir stellen hochwertige Salze, Additive und Wassertests vorwiegend für Meerwasseraquarien her. Korallen, Fische und Wirbellose in Ihrem Aquarium fühlen sich mit unseren Produkten wohl.

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

 

[Shirak]

According to TM the AFR powder provides 6000 dkh/liter of mix and the premixed liquid is 5600 dkh/liter

Randy posted some information on getting a calculation for AFR dosing based on tank usage. You would have to plug in your numbers:

This is some information from an earlier reply by Randy to AFR dosing:
140 grams of 10)% calcium formate (assuming it is fully dry) contains 1.077 moles (43.1 g) of calcium and 2.15 moles of formate.

If you dissolve that in 1 L of water, the concentration is 43,000 ppm calcium and 6,000 dKH.

To raise a 100L tank by 1dKH, you would need 100/6000 = 0.0167 L or 16.7 ml

To raise a 100L tank by 0.1dKH, you would use 1.7 ml

To raise my 400L tank by 0.1dKH, I would add 4 x 1.7 = 6.7 ml

 

[KimG]

Always dose based on alk, not calcium.
Not sure there is a formula.
I did what was mentioned before, start slowly and then reached the correct level. It does take 24h to adjust, so test the day after the dose, or dose for two days and then measure.

 

[Shooter6]

Always dose based on alk, not calcium.
Not sure there is a formula.
I did what was mentioned before, start slowly and then reached the correct level. It does take 24h to adjust, so test the day after the dose, or dose for two days and then measure.

Tropic Marin | Aquarium | Produktinformationen

Tropic Mairn - The aquatic life science company. Wir stellen hochwertige Salze, Additive und Wassertests vorwiegend für Meerwasseraquarien her. Korallen, Fische und Wirbellose in Ihrem Aquarium fühlen sich mit unseren Produkten wohl.

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

 

[ReefHog]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on this unless I'm misunderstanding this myself. The real issue (if you can even call it that) with AFR is when you first start using it, the ALK reading doesn't show up right away. So you don't adjust dosage based on ALK initially. Just follow recommended dosage at first. Then after a week or so you can fine tune your dosage based on ALK and use that moving forward. That's how I have done it on my two tanks (220 gallon mixed reef & 150 gallon mostly sps). The 220 has been using AFR for almost two years and both tanks ALK is always rock solid.

 

[Hermie]

It absolutely does change alk, though it takes 24-36hrs before seeing the full potency of the dose. This is why afr needs dose calibration over a week or two.
Dosing and testing to quickly can cause you to overshoot the desired level, but also allows higher stability since the drop will be slower.

I did not say that it does not change alk, so we are in agreement.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

50 x 5600/350000 =

Is there a formula to calculate how much all-for-reef is needed per day based on water volume and daily alk drop?

Yes, there is a formula its same for any alk addition:

in 350 liters of water 50ml AFR will raise alk by 0.8 dkh

50 x 5600/350000 = 0.8

Just plug in your values and if you know your daily alk consumption you should have an idea of how many ml to dose.

 

[Superlightman]

Question there is a way to add a PH boost to the all for reef powder we buy?

 

[Shooter6]

Question there is a way to add a PH boost to the all for reef powder we buy?

Now that is an interesting idea, but I can't think of anything that could be mixed in without messing up the stability. I use kalkwasser in combination with afr and keep my ph above 8.2 at all times

 

[Superlightman]

Now that is an interesting idea, but I can't think of anything that could be mixed in without messing up the stability. I use kalkwasser in combination with afr and keep my ph above 8.2 at all times

How do you use the kalkwasser? It not increases the alkalinity and the calcium to high? I worry less for the alkalinity than the calcium

 

[Shooter6]

How do you use the kalkwasser? It not increases the alkalinity and the calcium to high? I worry less for the alkalinity than the calcium

I dose a set amount kalkwasser per day with a kamoer x1 pro t doser for my system 5gal a day, then I dose the all for reef on top of that to keep my parameters where I want them 120ml a day.
The use of kalk on a doser is about the most stable option out there, just like all for reef. Only thing I need to dose additionally, is magnesium. I had to do that when I ran strictly all for reef too though so not an issue. I actually mix magnesium into my ato and that solves that .

 

[Superlightman]

I dose a set amount kalkwasser per day with a kamoer x1 pro t doser for my system 5gal a day, then I dose the all for reef on top of that to keep my parameters where I want them 120ml a day.
The use of kalk on a doser is about the most stable option out there, just like all for reef. Only thing I need to dose additionally, is magnesium. I had to do that when I ran strictly all for reef too though so not an issue. I actually mix magnesium into my ato and that solves that .

Why you add magnesium , there is already in the all for reef?

 

[Shooter6]

Why you add magnesium , there is already in the all for reef?

My previous system had a bunch of huge monti colonies, which sucked up more mag then the afr added.

My current system, I'm dosing more kalkwasser then the afr magnesium can cover. Kalk adds calcium and alkalinity only unless you use the brightwell k+2 stuff, which I have no experience with.

On top of these facts, TM reps told me that it's common for people ( some at least) to dose biomagnesiumon a seperate doser with afr, depending on uptake.

 

[Biologic]

My previous system had a bunch of huge monti colonies, which sucked up more mag then the afr added.

My current system, I'm dosing more kalkwasser then the afr magnesium can cover. Kalk adds calcium and alkalinity only unless you use the brightwell k+2 stuff, which I have no experience with.

On top of these facts, TM reps told me that it's common for people ( some at least) to dose biomagnesiumon a seperate doser with afr, depending on uptake.

You can always make the DIY recipe and cut the Magnesium in half or even a quarter and hand dose accordingly. Or water changes can handle magnesium if the demand is low enough.

 

[Shooter6]

You can always make the DIY recipe and cut the Magnesium in half or even a quarter and hand dose accordingly. Or water changes can handle magnesium if the demand is low enough.

My previous system was 270g and current is 700g,

Water changes were not going to cut it for magnesium supplement!

And I have to dose extra magnesium on top of the all for reef. I had asked the tm reps if I could add more magnesium into the diy mix, ( been doing the diy for the first 3 years it was available and afr powder for 2 plus years. I was ordering it from germany before anyone in the US knew about it) the rep told me it's common to put the biomag on a seperate doser. They don't sell a large enough container of it to make sense for my needs.
Here's another one most people don't know, the afr powder is available in a 33.5 pound container !

 

[Biologic]

My previous system was 270g and current is 700g,

Water changes were not going to cut it for magnesium supplement!

And I have to dose extra magnesium on top of the all for reef. I had asked the tm reps if I could add more magnesium into the diy mix, ( been doing the diy for the first 3 years it was available and afr powder for 2 plus years. I was ordering it from germany before anyone in the US knew about it) the rep told me it's common to put the biomag on a seperate doser. They don't sell a large enough container of it to make sense for my needs.
Here's another one most people don't know, the afr powder is available in a 33.5 pound container !

Wow, big tanks. I am working with a 50 gallon lol.

Yeah the solubility of the powders are maxed out with standard All For Reef recipe. The carbo-calcium and bio-magnesium are not 100% soluble in the solution in the prescribed weights -- until you add A- and K+, which nearly brings the powders into solution. So splitting up the bio-mag, and adding more carbo-calcium to the standard one part recipe makes a lot of sense. Not sure how much powder you can add into that 1L solution. Have you measured? Just curious.

I'd consider something more economical like kalkwasser if you can afford the space to run a slurry dose which is all the rage right now. Then cheap magnesium chloride. Why All-For-Reef for you personally?

 

[Shooter6]

Wow, big tanks. I am working with a 50 gallon lol.

Yeah the solubility of the powders are maxed out with standard All For Reef recipe. The carbo-calcium and bio-magnesium are not 100% soluble in the solution in the prescribed weights -- until you add A- and K+, which nearly brings the powders into solution. So splitting up the bio-mag, and adding more carbo-calcium to the standard one part recipe makes a lot of sense. Not sure how much powder you can add into that 1L solution. Have you measured? Just curious.

I'd consider something more economical like kalkwasser if you can afford the space to run a slurry dose which is all the rage right now. Then cheap magnesium chloride. Why All-For-Reef for you personally?

Seems we are having a communication issue.

I DO NOT ADD EXTRA carbocalcium.

When I ran strictly the diy afr, I mixed it up to the prescribed directions, at 10ltrs at a time. I had to mix up additional magnesium IN A SEPERATE CONTAINER and dose that on a seperate does head to keep it in my desired range.

ON MY CURRENT SYSTEM I run an AVAST MARINE KALK STIRRER, dosing 5gal Per day. AND ON TOP OF THAT 8ml per hr of AFR and weekly bumps of magnesium.
I run afr for the added trace elements, bacteria, the cushion the slow metabolism afr has and the magnesium. Ive contemplated the kalk slurry BUT that can get dangerous real quick, if there's a mechanical failure. Also that requires trusting a monitor/controller which I do not with anything critical life support.
Hopefully this clears up your confusion

 

[Biologic]

Seems we are having a communication issue.

I DO NOT ADD EXTRA carbocalcium.

When I ran strictly the diy afr, I mixed it up to the prescribed directions, at 10ltrs at a time. I had to mix up additional magnesium IN A SEPERATE CONTAINER and dose that on a seperate does head to keep it in my desired range.

ON MY CURRENT SYSTEM I run an AVAST MARINE KALK STIRRER, dosing 5gal Per day. AND ON TOP OF THAT 8ml per hr of AFR and weekly bumps of magnesium.
I run afr for the added trace elements, bacteria, the cushion the slow metabolism afr has and the magnesium. Ive contemplated the kalk slurry BUT that can get dangerous real quick, if there's a mechanical failure. Also that requires trusting a monitor/controller which I do not with anything critical life support.
Hopefully this clears up your confusion

lol there’s no communication error. Just asking questions. I understand your use of the product. Caps lock isn’t needed here.

agree on the kalk slurry.

 

[Shooter6]

lol there’s no communication error. Just asking questions. I understand your use of the product. Caps lock isn’t needed here.

agree on the kalk slurry.

Ok you were describing my afr use wrong from how I am running, and have ran it.
So that was the reason tor caps, aka bold print.
I am 100% sure I was the very first person in the USA to use the afr powder. In use for over 2 years now. And before that it was the diy mix. I was using the diy even before the brs recipe was printed, just a slightly different mix. I diluted mine more.

I understand you asked some questions, but I wanted to clarify exactly what I was and am doing, so that you had a 100% understanding of that before I answered otherwise you may be confused, of working under bad advice which I do not ever want to be the source of.