DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do apologize if this was already stated/asked/answered:

What is the risk in dosing too much solution at once? let's say a particular individual with two small children who are very active, always running and playing, also very distracting, uses TABLESPOON instead of TEASPOON and possibly adds 3 to a 550ml mixture....

I'm curious on what I did besides the obvious which killed nearly all my fish. Did I spike Ammonia and now I'm back in a "cycle" state; did I crater pH (can't tell since my pH probe went belly up on me two weeks ago, ordered the calibration fluid to make sure that was all it is)? I'm curious what the ultimate risk is with dosing Ammonium Bicarbonate.

If you highly overdosed ammonia, you could kill fish but would not start new cycling.

You need to greatly exceed the amount I recommended. Much more than 10x. Tablespoon vs teaspoon is not going to kill fish.

 

[BrokenReefer]

If you highly overdosed ammonia, you could kill fish but would not start new cycling.

You need to greatly exceed the amount I recommended. Much more than 10x. Tablespoon vs teaspoon is not going to kill fish.

If I'm remembering what I did correctly, 5 tablespoon total in 1100ml (2x 550ml containers).

Something happened which killed the fish; I know my alk rose from 7.89 to 9.67 overnight Saturday into Sunday morning (measured via Trident).

Nitrates were immeasurable via Hannah ULR checker (0.0) and remeasured Monday they were 4.8 ... I know that I did something bad and I'm not seeing the what just by reading the thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If I'm remembering what I did correctly, 5 tablespoon total in 1100ml (2x 550ml containers).

Something happened which killed the fish; I know my alk rose from 7.89 to 9.67 overnight Saturday into Sunday morning (measured via Trident).

Nitrates were immeasurable via Hannah ULR checker (0.0) and remeasured Monday they were 4.8 ... I know that I did something bad and I'm not seeing the what just by reading the thread.

What material were you dosing and were you also dosing alk?

The reason I ask is neither ammonia solution should boost alk.

If you were dosing alk and something bad happened, alk demand might fall and alk would then rise.

But if you were not dosing alk, then I cannot see why alk would rise and perhaps you added something else by mistake.

 

[BrokenReefer]

What material were you dosing and were you also dosing alk?

The reason I ask is neither ammonia solution should boost alk.

If you were dosing alk and something bad happened, alk demand might fall and alk would then rise.

But if you were not dosing alk, then I cannot see why alk would rise and perhaps you added something else by mistake.

I was dosing Ammonium Bicarbonate from an Amazon vendor and Tropic Marin All-For-Reef; which I turned off the dosing head Sunday morning when I got the alarm. In the Apex logs the dosing chart does not show any increase in dosage amounts, just follows the schedule set for it.

FWIW, the image attached is the Ammonium Bicarbonate I bought from Amazon.

I would mix the solution with the magnetic stirrer and pour into the middle chamber of my sump, which is where my protein skimmer lives.

 

[ReefRookies]

If nitrate and phosphate are both undetectable, I’d either feed more or dose both.

Ive tried increasing feeding to the point where most of the fish ignore the food without much success. This tank went through a ridiculous phase after the nitrogen cycle where nitrites, nitrates, and phosphates were all off the charts high. Higher than I could test for by far. It stayed that way for months. All I can surmise is the rocks I used had dead organics deep within them that, then, slowly leeched out into the tank... for 8 freakin months. They came out of a very dirty tank, covered in GHA, were not cleaned, then sat outside for a year. Then overnight almost, they all went to zero, and have not come up since. Verified with three different test sets and a spintronic. Im sending off an ICP test soon. Ive never had a tank do that in 25 years.

That said. Neonitro seems to help a bit, but is an expensive option for the amount needed. Ill order the products and get things going and report back. Thanks for your help!

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I was dosing Ammonium Bicarbonate from an Amazon vendor and Tropic Marin All-For-Reef; which I turned off the dosing head Sunday morning when I got the alarm. In the Apex logs the dosing chart does not show any increase in dosage amounts, just follows the schedule set for it.

FWIW, the image attached is the Ammonium Bicarbonate I bought from Amazon.

I would mix the solution with the magnetic stirrer and pour into the middle chamber of my sump, which is where my protein skimmer lives.

I missed exactly how much of this solution that you made was dosed. I read the 3 tablespoons into 2 550ml containers, and then you added into the sump. How much did you add to the sump?

 

[BrokenReefer]

I missed exactly how much of this solution that you made was dosed. I read the 3 tablespoons into 2 550ml containers, and then you added into the sump. How much did you add to the sump?

All of it

My kids were playing nicely in their bounce house one minute and then …. Daddy had to react to both kids screaming and crying.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

All of it

My kids were playing nicely in their bounce house one minute and then …. Daddy had to react to both kids screaming and crying.

Oh snap! Yeah that’s quite a bit. For reference I’m dosing about 20ml per day to less than 200g. 1100ml all at once and at tablespoons over teaspoons is probably not good. Sorry this happened. Life happens to everyone. Hope the kids are ok

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh, yes, that is a massive overdose. What size tank?

 

[BrokenReefer]

Oh, yes, that is a massive overdose. What size tank?

Roughly 187g between display and sump.

I knew I screwed up when I let that last cup fly …

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Oh, yes, that is a massive overdose. What size tank?

Wouldn’t a dose as large as this of ammonium bicarbonate contribute to the increase of alk. Just to clarify now

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wouldn’t a dose as large as this of ammonium bicarbonate contribute to the increase of alk. Just to clarify now

Complicated question, but if the ammonia is still elevated then there will be some detectable alk from it. If ammonia has dropped, then no.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you made the dosing solution to the specified potency, then dosing 1 L to your tank would instantly jump ammonia to 6 ppm. If that killed anything, then ammonia might rise even higher. If you used tablespoons instead of teaspoons, that would jump the 6 ppm to 18 ppm ammonia.

 

[BrokenReefer]

ok, so I did what I suspected and nuked fish with the ammonia spike.


I am in the process of doing several large water changes on the system to remove and replenish with “clean” water. What other lasting problems should I be on the look out for? The intention is to try and minimize any resulting deaths be they the last four fish or inverts. Corals I have pretty much killed all, the nets are still alive but I’m guessing barely.

 

[BrokenReefer]

Oh snap! Yeah that’s quite a bit. For reference I’m dosing about 20ml per day to less than 200g. 1100ml all at once and at tablespoons over teaspoons is probably not good. Sorry this happened. Life happens to everyone. Hope the kids are ok

Oh and yes, kids are fine. My son was mad my daughter threw the giant giraffe out of the bounce house so he then hit her and she freaked out.

Kids.

 

[ReeferZ1227]

Oh and yes, kids are fine. My son was mad my daughter threw the giant giraffe out of the bounce house so he then hit her and she freaked out.

Kids.

FWIW I'm about a week into dosing ammonia in my tank using the same product. I have a 125, sump, and 20gal frag tank. I mix the same amazon product in a pee cup (shaking) 100mL RODI and 1.35g, 10mL roughly raises my 120 .1ppm.

I just shoot the 10mL, manually, at random 3-4x per day into the sump. For experimenting with potentially toxic or short term things I prefer to stick to the manual method. My first experience dosing nitrate a couple years ago led to the entire stock solution going into the tank and an emergency 100% WC.

I did notice my euphyllia flesh appear to be more puffed up and some of the best PE ive seen in my tank the 2nd day. I have seen the tentacles of torches and goniopora puff up immediately after dosing. No idea if that's a good thing or what. Few pics of the PE:

Unfortunately my tank had a recent big tin issue (45ug) so I'm not going to be a good control for before/after ammonia as there's alot of moving pieces right now, however that PE is mid-crash losing 2-3 smaller SPS colonies, shortly after dosing ammonia.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

ok, so I did what I suspected and nuked fish with the ammonia spike.


I am in the process of doing several large water changes on the system to remove and replenish with “clean” water. What other lasting problems should I be on the look out for? The intention is to try and minimize any resulting deaths be they the last four fish or inverts. Corals I have pretty much killed all, the nets are still alive but I’m guessing barely.

Aside from nitrate being higher than it was, and anything else that may have died aside from fish, I don't see any effects that are likely to be lasting.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Unfortunately my tank had a recent big tin issue (45ug) so I'm not going to be a good control for before/after ammonia as there's alot of moving pieces right now, however that PE is mid-crash losing 2-3 smaller SPS colonies, shortly after dosing ammonia.

Thanks for the info.

Are you doing anything about the tin?

 

[BrokenReefer]

Aside from nitrate being higher than it was, and anything else that may have died aside from fish, I don't see any effects that are likely to be lasting.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, I greatly appreciated it.

 

[ReeferZ1227]

Thanks for the info.

Are you doing anything about the tin?

Had added a frag tank just before the issue started - Changed soft plumbing from vinyl to silicone. Changed a questionable and likely culprit fuge light. Big water changes. Tried cuprisorb which did not appear to do much in my case but cannot confirm, confirmed RODI quality, standard playbook I suppose.

Don't want to write a book about it on this great thread, but I have reduced it down to 17ug 3 weeks between ICP results.

Thanks for asking.