DIY LED upgrade in an old PFO MH/VHO fixture led driver suggestions.

[oreo54]

I also thought if it's a problem for the bridge lux is add some fans on the back near them. Also thinking about it it would be better to mostly use a good thermal grease but use the thermal epoxy in a few spots to hold the heat sinks together.

Things like "heatsink plaster" is a thermal transfer silicone. I left epoxies behind. Besides there nowhere near as strong as they say ..

 

[geekengineer]

I thought what I read also as far as anodizing the heat sink is that only really helps if you don't have much air flow if I read that right?

 

[oreo54]

I thought what I read also as far as anodizing the heat sink is that only really helps if you don't have much air flow if I read that right?

Generally speaking, yes.
I have a hard time with " only" though.
Every major reef led with fans runs anodized sinks, for whatever that is worth.
About the only possible exceptions are the " black boxes".

My take is even a degree or two of extra cooling has worth.

If you read enough you can find evidence ein either direction. Anodizing decreases convection heat transfer but increases radiative losses.
Gain/ loss balance affected by multiple parameters.
Case in point:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...EQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1lSsz9Dgua2vzeiAt65omT
In your specific case... probably makes little difference. Unless the fans die..

 

[geekengineer]

Well thanks for your help and get that you are very knowledgeable in this area. I just don't have to have things too perfect and we can see were it goes. I would like to see if I could get this center "white" solution with BL/COB LEDs working. I keep looking at my MH balast and its a beast. It would be nicer to have something that doesn't take up a bunch of space or is 25 pounds. lol Should I go ahead and get the Bridge Lux and more blues? I haven't ordered that other LED driver yet either.

 

[geekengineer]

LOL I found the perfect solution where I only need one COB.

Monster LED

 

[geekengineer]

So I have it all fixed up and running with MH right now. It does get pretty hot although nothing has died yet. lol It would probably be better if I had some really of those reflective panels along the sides of those heat sinks to keep the heat away from them maybe.

Some pictures.. The color looks a bit different in real life tho. So hard to tell if you. The blue light is more purple ish and when the MH is on its a bit more white than purple.

 

[oreo54]

Or you can scale it back to fit the 148v max driver. Using 2 Bridgelux
"Personally" I think either direction is fine but I have no PRACTICAL experience.

Second I tend to try not to spend " other people's money", the captain may I comment aside.

33.50 Bridgelux
9.75v blue 3 up Steves
6.8w each

Patterns aside lets look at the choices, I'm going to stick w/ 10V Blue COBS or 3up stars all blue diodes:

2 Bridgelux 67V, 8 blue cobs 80V ---148V
driver
2 Bridgelux 67V 14 blue ( or asst) cobs 215V

3 Bridgelux 100.5V 4 Blue cobs ---- 148V driver
3 Bridgelux 100.5V 11 Blue(or asst) Cobs --- 215V driver

4 Bridgelux cobs 134V 1 Blue Cob ----148V Driver
4 Bridgelux 134V 8 Blue cobs--- 215v driver
(FORGOT to add you have the 2 royal blue cob add on to use or not to use for spacing.)
"Cheap" cobs are $6.99 each if in US
$7.97 for 10 if shipped out of China
Steves 3 up all blue stars. 9.8V @ 700mA $9.99

Sorry thought I posted this last night.
Anyways what mh did you use?

That violet tine comes from either red in the mh's or if using high nm blue ( what some call violet)
High nm blue stimulates both the blue and red cones in your eyes giving it that false color of violet .

To cut it down you need to add green/ cyan or not depending on ones like or dislike of it.

 

[oreo54]

2 Bridgelux 67V, 8 blue cobs 80V ---148V 25000-40000K

3 Bridgelux 100.5V 4 Blue cobs ---- 148V driver 9000-10000K
Skip the 2 add ons for ch 1(RB channel)


4 Bridgelux cobs 134V 1 Blue Cob ----148V Driver 6620K
Just bad spacing better off skipping blue cob, add a few blue to the rb string for spectrum spread, or not
Better off w/ 215v driver as orig. designed

The actual differences are more power related than "look" since you have one big RB channel.
12-14 COBS at 6.7-9w each depending on quality or drive current.

As one who believes more is more.. and has dimming I'd go with the more though, again , "I" can't judge what is too much more COST wise.

In my mind 250W of LED over that tank is plenty, historically speaking.
Your orig light seems over kill to me anyways. 300W plus 2 x 95w = 490W

BUT for safety sake and an estimate of led delivery efficiency over the orig and the inefficiency (and fair quality cobs) of the VHO my "assumption" is about 367W of led matches, whatever that may mean.

Other peoples opinions..

Metal halide for 40 breeder

What would you guys recommend for metal halides over a 40b? I'm gunna use one kessil a360 that I already have, but would like to add metal halide into the mix.

www.reef2reef.com

Metal Halide for a 40b?

I am setting up a new 40 gallon breeder and I am wondering if this lighting system would be good for most coral? The lighting system is : 36" Odyssea 2 X 150w metal halide, 2 X 65w power compact actinic and 3 X 1w LED moonlight lighting system This is my first reef tank. Thanks for your help!

www.nano-reef.com

250w mh alone seems fine.. 2 150's for better coverage, some t5's fill or accent light, not necessarily "par" though it comes along with hit.

Choice is yours, spend the extra $50 knowing you "may" never use the gains (exception would be if you LIKE ch 2 "as it is" without the rb added or a "smidge" of it. Or blast it but dim both (saving led lifespan btw)
We pushed it to 131W (215V driver, I'd need to check), bit low for the 250w MH match but still plenty of output especially w/ using the Bridgelux cobs.

Even though this is all a bit "theoretical" I see no way to really "fail" here except in possible look.
Even that should be hard to do.

This is a midrange light that you are basically building. It probably is run at about 200w +/-depending on a persons "taste"

Photon 32-V2 Pro - ReefBreeders.com

The Photon 32-V2 Pro is a perfect light for your 3 foot coral reef tank. It easily handles SPS corals and you can even use 2 for your 6 foot tank!

reefbreeders.com

This is for fun, I was trying to find REAL WORLD wattage for the reffbreeders:

Reef Breeders Photon V2+ LED Light: The Definitive Review

"You get what you pay for". We know that sentence all too well and our emotional response to the phrase is universally a negative one. But is it really fair t

reefs.com

Funny thing about ratios but worth a mention..
2:1 Blue/white, sort of the anchor point for some. Popularity-wise it is probably more like 4:1
The 4 bridgelux big array and 14 cobs on ch 1 has a rough real output ratio of
14:20 or 1:1.4 (est)
Obviously dimming shifts the ratio

Ok sort of found it.. but for 16" unit. Just double for a 32" for approx real wattage:

Reef Breeders LED Reef Fixture - Photon 16-V2+

Reef Breeders LED Reef Fixture - Photon 16-V2+

www.reefsupplies.ca

Actual Wattage Draw

3-115watts, 90-220V AC input | 48V DC 980ma max amperage output

230W.....

NOTE wattage isn't the be all end all of this story but used as a loose proxy.
Bridgelux and say Steves 3 up rebel cool blue will have more "value" per watt than the inexpensive cobs but one needs a starting point.

 

[geekengineer]

Those are the two old MH bulbs that came with it. They were Ushio Aqualite 10K 150W HQIs and they are probably getting to the end of their life the inside of the bulbs are getting fairly blackened. (which I don't know if that could create more red) I ordered some cheapo 10K MH ones but they haven't come in yet. I didn't want to spend too much on bulbs if I end up not using them. lol

It is a good point to make I think this lamp was probably meant for a little bigger tank. But I got it fairly cheap and cost me about $50 to fix the ballast at the time. I'm not sure if the intent for this fixture was to have the VHO acnitic and MH on at the same time either.

I like this option if I decide just to use the 148V driver I have on order.
3 Bridgelux 100.5V 4 Blue cobs ---- 148V driver

or this one if I get the 215V driver.
4 Bridgelux 134V 8 Blue cobs--- 215v driver (is that counting 2 from channel 1? cause I had 6 blues before)

I did check with my IR gun and the side heat sinks get to around 60C with all the lights on after a while. Tho I don't know how much difference it would be what emissivity I had set on the gun. it was set at .0098 I think. I was wondering if I could put a couple aluminum sheets in between the lamp and the heat sink to shield it. Mainly cause it something I could try this weekend. Granted I wonder if I would want to dim down the RBs during the day anyhow.

Without the royal blues on the light it pretty white but it sort of looks like there could be a bit of violet to it. I forgot to take a picture of that earlier.

 

[oreo54]

Cost analysis:
Bridgelux $12.56/COB
33.5V
$50.24 for 4
Steves three up cool blue (still would inquire w/ steves re: cyan availability but I digress)
9.81V
$9.99 each
$59.94 for 6

Driver
$54.34

$164.52 Total
sorry couldn't resist throwing in the premium blue emitters.


192.86V @ 700mA 135.0Watts
$1.22/Watt

Ch1
$60 driver
10w cobs x 14 (?)

Ushio new, lots of "red" and blue that looks violet ..14080k 64 cri ..purplish.

 

[Steven Garland]

I mean there is these,might not be the best bin though:

https://www.kiwilighting.com/epileds-60w-royal-blue-450nm-led-emitter

 

[geekengineer]

honestly for now I wonder if turning off the RBs while the MHs are on would be fine with me not sure what the corals would think of course. lol Maybe work on replacing the MH later.

 

[geekengineer]

Well I got a few rectangular strips of aluminum to act as a heat shield for the LED strips and I think it helped some. With the halides and LEDs running they was getting over 60C at times now its more like 50C. I wonder if polishing those strips to as close to a mirror finish as I can if that would help any. I put a shelf inside my sump area to put the ballast in there.

 

[geekengineer]

So I was playing around some. Which maybe a bad thing. lol. I put some 40mm SAN ACE fans in from canceled project where I worked last and created a separate plenum for the LED bars. I am running them at the lowest speed and they aren't too bad, maybe a bit winy. If I turned them up to full I bet you things will be cool, but you wouldn't be able to hear either. lol

I think it is a bit better but probably not as much as I might have hoped. The LED bars are maybe running 40-45C now.

 

[geekengineer]

BTW. I think I will still plan on buying the bridge luxes tho. Also if I get the Steve's COBs if they have cyan would the other two LEDs still be blue then? It may be a while before I get that other LED driver anyhow.

I forgot what would be cool to is to put a rasberry PI pico W in the fixture so I could monitor the temperature and possibly control the speed of those fans based off the temperature or shut them off if I want to etc.

 

[geekengineer]

Well I'm sort of torn cause I've noticed the magnetic ballasts after a while they get pretty hot under the hood. I assume electronic ballasts would be better but that would cost me maybe $140 for two cheap ones on e-bay. That's making me re-consider swapping to LEDs anyway. Its just going to be a bit until my power supply comes in. I'm thinking of just go with the 3 Bridge lux for now but buy four for future. Look into four of those steve's blue COBs as well. I wondering if I could use a dab of epoxy on the ends to hold the LEDs in so I could remove them later and rearrange if I decide to later.

 

[oreo54]

Yes 2 blue, 1 cyan per each 3 up star. Cyan broadens the blue peak and keeps from going into the "purple" range mostly
2 choices really 2 cyan, 1 cool blue or 1 cyan, 2 cool blue.
Rough idea of it.
"Path" is decreasing # of Bridgelux cobs.
Dots are approx color of just the 3 up stars.
More cyan less, purple..

This was parked but not posted apparently.

Heatsink plaster is a bit easier to remove.

 

[geekengineer]

OK cool thanks for the update. I'm going to try to order 2blue and 1cyan COBs and see what they say. I did an experiment that hopefully I can remove them I put a small dab of epoxy on two corners. I guess worst case is I destroy these 10W 6500K COBs taking them off but they weren't doing anything other than sitting in a box anyhow. I didn't have some of that heat sink glue either sorry.

So I put nine 10 watt of my 6500K COBs on one strip in bunches of three (sort of like one Bridge lux times three. They did get fairly hot and I only had the 2 inch strip with no air. I happened to find my 48v power supply for my CNC so I strung it with a 12V power supply I had then to my bench-top supply to control the current.

I also had a surprise I wanted to try out but it didn't work. Sorry for the disaster lab. lol

 

[geekengineer]

OK here is a bit of the surprise for oreo, not sure if it will impress or fall flat on its face, but its a bit up his alley. lol

So I made a poor mans spectroscope that attaches to your cell phone.

spectrometer

The diffraction grating I had didn't work (not the right lines/mm) so I tried a different one that uses a DVD piece for the diffraction grating. So its hard to get lined up right, but here are some of the pictures. I like to mess around and see if I could make a better one.

I ordered the 2 blue and 1 cyan Steve's 3ups and 4 Bridge luxes. They didn't say anything yet about not being able to get those. They haven't shipped yet but they may take some time to make them up I assume.

So here is the metal halides I have.

This below is the rail I setup last night with the 9 china 10W 10K COBs. I can see maybe the reason cyan?

This below is the Royal Blue it was hard to tell if this was the spectrum or a reflection.

 

[oreo54]

OK here is a bit of the surprise for oreo, not sure if it will impress or fall flat on its face, but its a bit up his alley. lol

So I made a poor mans spectroscope that attaches to your cell phone.

spectrometer

The diffraction grating I had didn't work (not the right lines/mm) so I tried a different one that uses a DVD piece for the diffraction grating. So its hard to get lined up right, but here are some of the pictures. I like to mess around and see if I could make a better one.

I ordered the 2 blue and 1 cyan Steve's 3ups and 4 Bridge luxes. They didn't say anything yet about not being able to get those. They haven't shipped yet but they may take some time to make them up I assume.

So here is the metal halides I have.

This below is the rail I setup last night with the 9 china 10W 10K COBs. I can see maybe the reason cyan?

This below is the Royal Blue it was hard to tell if this was the spectrum or a reflection.

LOL don't get me on the diy spectrometer.
I bought one of those slides w/ 1000 lines per mm.
Like this:

Diffraction Grating

Use this double axis diffraction grating to separate light into its different colors. Contains 13,500 lines per inch and is mounted in a 2"x2" cardboard frame.

www.homesciencetools.com

Next would have been some linear CMOS camera module.
It was just easier buying one of these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2834518218...624&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Well not that one but similar.

Anyways it highlights the " red"( yellow) green blue mercury spikes dominating and why it is difficult to match mh w/ led.
Does show LEDs are more " like sunlight" than mh's. Well the high k ones at least.
Arguable of course.
On the negative side for the led the broad " not blue" and low cyan and short and low red is dulling.

For better pics you need to adjust the cameras exposure.