Does Lineage Really Matter?
- Thread starter emerald525
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I didn't read all of the post above mine, sorry, I don't have time nor do I feel as if they have any importance to me, I'm posting my take on this, and leaving it at that.
First off, no, I will strait up say that linage DOES NOT matter, for a multidue ot reasonings.
To get on my soap box, I'll start by saying that each coral comes from the ocean, there is no such thing as one of a kind. One thing that makes me so mad is when I see a vendor (not naming names) venture off and say "This is a one of a kind never see again piece". Awesome, great advertisment for the newbies, but for those of us who have been in this hobby, there is PLENTY more of the same thing in the ocean. PLENTY more. If the money is there, so is the coral, plain and simple. Of cource there was only one Barbie Bently that Paris Hilton had, now there are more when the money was put on the table for the same car. It's the same situation for the coral industry. I could walk into a wholesaler and if I deep enough pockets, I could pick up anything I wanted regardless.
Second, I have seen on the internet so many look alike corals and I haven't been able to tell the difference between some of them. I will not name the corals I've seen, but trust me, some of the industries TOP corals, yeah, those I've seen for VERY low prices and they look almost exactly the same, call BS on me, but I'm willing to provide links. (DO NOT PM ME ASKING FOR CHEAP CORALS, I WILL NOT RESPOND).
Third, if it looks exactly the same and you can't tell the difference, what is the point in paying for linage? There isn't one, I know there are some, but they are quite frivolous.
There is a place for linage in some situations, the old classics, I would buywith linage just because they are older and its cool to know that it is legit, but with todays corals there is so many look alikes, it dosen't make a difference.
Thank you, good luck with spending money for those of you who love to buy corals with linage...
Off my soap box now.
First off, no, I will strait up say that linage DOES NOT matter, for a multidue ot reasonings.
To get on my soap box, I'll start by saying that each coral comes from the ocean, there is no such thing as one of a kind. One thing that makes me so mad is when I see a vendor (not naming names) venture off and say "This is a one of a kind never see again piece". Awesome, great advertisment for the newbies, but for those of us who have been in this hobby, there is PLENTY more of the same thing in the ocean. PLENTY more. If the money is there, so is the coral, plain and simple. Of cource there was only one Barbie Bently that Paris Hilton had, now there are more when the money was put on the table for the same car. It's the same situation for the coral industry. I could walk into a wholesaler and if I deep enough pockets, I could pick up anything I wanted regardless.
Second, I have seen on the internet so many look alike corals and I haven't been able to tell the difference between some of them. I will not name the corals I've seen, but trust me, some of the industries TOP corals, yeah, those I've seen for VERY low prices and they look almost exactly the same, call BS on me, but I'm willing to provide links. (DO NOT PM ME ASKING FOR CHEAP CORALS, I WILL NOT RESPOND).
Third, if it looks exactly the same and you can't tell the difference, what is the point in paying for linage? There isn't one, I know there are some, but they are quite frivolous.
There is a place for linage in some situations, the old classics, I would buywith linage just because they are older and its cool to know that it is legit, but with todays corals there is so many look alikes, it dosen't make a difference.
Thank you, good luck with spending money for those of you who love to buy corals with linage...
Off my soap box now.
WesF
Well-Known Member
Lineage is only as good as the person telling you where it came from.
Some of the classics have been grown and fragged so many generations now that its impossible to prove it can be traced back to the original mother colony. It's all a bunch of he said/she said unless you buy it from the person who named it so I don't get caught up in it.
If it looks good and I'm willing to pay your asking price I'm not going to ask for paperwork.
Some of the classics have been grown and fragged so many generations now that its impossible to prove it can be traced back to the original mother colony. It's all a bunch of he said/she said unless you buy it from the person who named it so I don't get caught up in it.
If it looks good and I'm willing to pay your asking price I'm not going to ask for paperwork.
not to me
Not to me I like what I like I don't care who it came from as long as its in my tank that's all that matters lol
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Yes when I am legitimately collecting corals in the sense of, I want the Limited Edition Red Watermelon, ktar's Raging Rivers, WWC's Rainbow Sleeper, Jason Fox's My Miami, etc. This is because if someone is really collecting something, they more than likely will want to make sure that what they are collecting is not a fraud. This ensures that the collector has a "high end" collection. Where as if they had all look-alikes their collection would be worthless, to other collectors. Or in the event where a collector would like to trade or sell some of their own collection in order to expand their collection, they do not want to be known as the person ripping people off with look-alikes.
Lineage does not matter at all when I am trying to stock a display tank with corals that will be noticeable and attractive to guest who view the tank. I do not care if every single coral in the display is a fraud, in a collecting sense, simply because its only purpose of being in the tank is to attract viewers.
Lineage does not matter at all when I am trying to stock a display tank with corals that will be noticeable and attractive to guest who view the tank. I do not care if every single coral in the display is a fraud, in a collecting sense, simply because its only purpose of being in the tank is to attract viewers.
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fab1971
Valuable Member
If I'm paying $100-$500 for a small frag of something, you can bet I want to know the lineage. Most of the time frags don't look anything like the original colony and I want to make sure I'm getting what I'm paying for. Especially if I plan on selling or trading in the future. But if I'm going to the lfs to pick out some corals to fill my tank then I can care less.
WesF
Well-Known Member
KLR and fab, I understand wanting to know lineage for expensive pieces but how would someone prove it?
If someone was selling an imposter don't you think they would also lie about the lineage?
"I got this my Miami from Jason Fox himself" is usually all it takes. Are you asking to see receipts or invoices?
I think the only way you truly know is to go directly to the source, no?
If someone was selling an imposter don't you think they would also lie about the lineage?
"I got this my Miami from Jason Fox himself" is usually all it takes. Are you asking to see receipts or invoices?
I think the only way you truly know is to go directly to the source, no?
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KJAG
Rogue
Your take is relevant to maybe a craigslist sale, where you can only take someone for their word, but in an open forum it's sort of self- enforcing. Nothing really goes unseen. If you make a lineage claim on the forum, the odds are high that your source will see your ad with their name.
If the person is not reputable or I have never purchased from or traded with them before, and I was paying for a collector piece, I would more than likely contact the originator and ask them if they sold it to the person who was currently selling it, like you suggested.
pciscott
Active Member
Lineage can be tricky especially when you have wholesale/retail vendors hitting the market who split up the colonies. Atom Bomb, Crazy Ivan, Atomic Bomb, are they from the same piece and named by different sellers? Does Lineage come from the wholesale source or the coral namer??? Greg Carrol Pumpkin Patch and Eric's Miami Hurricane are in fact the same piece that was cut in half by the wholesaler, does one have more value?
I would equate lineage to a proven aqua cultured track record yet wild colonies are chopped and sold as the new Tyree LE so in my opinion Lineage has little meaning. I have experience with many of the high end vendors and when I do pay extra for premium colors I appreciate well healed frags as I have received from Jason Fox, World Wide Corals, Cherry Corals, to name a few and those of you who fresh cut and hype up the price I have learned to stay away from.
I understand supply and demand and I know the value of a Pumpkin Patch/Miami Hurricane in today's market. We all have better technology and resources to keep our tanks healthy yet we still pay for the color. Would you rather pay top dollar today for a coral that may morph under artificial light or wait a year for it to be proven and less than half the price? This is something I have learned from experience and some great advice for those new to the game as buying high end coral is not a solid investment and it is easy to get caught up in the only 3 available super uber one of a kind BS.
I notice items for sale in the hobbyist section have not been selling as quick, same on the coral vendors side, I hope this is a economic indicator that the LE coral bubble has burst and we can start moving back towards reasonable prices for premium color.
Lineage is not as important as health and color to me, and as said above a well healed frag is appreciated from this buyer.
I would equate lineage to a proven aqua cultured track record yet wild colonies are chopped and sold as the new Tyree LE so in my opinion Lineage has little meaning. I have experience with many of the high end vendors and when I do pay extra for premium colors I appreciate well healed frags as I have received from Jason Fox, World Wide Corals, Cherry Corals, to name a few and those of you who fresh cut and hype up the price I have learned to stay away from.
I understand supply and demand and I know the value of a Pumpkin Patch/Miami Hurricane in today's market. We all have better technology and resources to keep our tanks healthy yet we still pay for the color. Would you rather pay top dollar today for a coral that may morph under artificial light or wait a year for it to be proven and less than half the price? This is something I have learned from experience and some great advice for those new to the game as buying high end coral is not a solid investment and it is easy to get caught up in the only 3 available super uber one of a kind BS.
I notice items for sale in the hobbyist section have not been selling as quick, same on the coral vendors side, I hope this is a economic indicator that the LE coral bubble has burst and we can start moving back towards reasonable prices for premium color.
Lineage is not as important as health and color to me, and as said above a well healed frag is appreciated from this buyer.
WesF
Well-Known Member
This would work if the person you buy it from got a piece from the original but I have several Tyree LE acros that have been around for years. While I believe they are "real" they are so many generations removed from the original colony it would be impossible to trace back every person down the line until it got back to Steve's mother.
fab1971
Valuable Member
I only deal with people that are reputable and I trust. Also, it's pretty easy to identify a certain piece since so many people take pictures these days. Very important to me since the only way I fund buying these corals is by selling a piece after they grow out and I wouldn't want to sell someone the wrong piece.
Good point. I would agree with Frank's post in this situation. If they are that old there are probably various images of the legitimate one that you could find online and use to compare with yours to see if it is real.
Thanks for the info. I have been in the hobby awhile but I have stayed with easy to keep coral. Just now getting out of my comfort zone. Lol
btkrausen
Fish Hoarder
Back to the subject...does lineage really matter???
Once again, there will be no finger pointing at members or vendors, so please keep comments to yourself if they don't pertain to the subject at hand.
Once again, there will be no finger pointing at members or vendors, so please keep comments to yourself if they don't pertain to the subject at hand.
Sorry, I haven't been on a lot lately because there has been a lot of rude people on. Every time I read a thred or even reply to one some has something to say. It is getting crazy on here. But back to the thread. I really don't know how the linage thing works so that is why it isn't that important to me. Plus trying to trace it back to the original just seems hard to do.
_sludgefactory
Valuable Member
I think lineage might mean more if there was some kind of certificate of authenticity with it.
Tank thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81000
LG P999 EaglesBlood 2.8, Trinity ELPmax
Tank thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81000
LG P999 EaglesBlood 2.8, Trinity ELPmax
707 Reefer
unregistered
I dont think it does, its not like your polyps will come with paperwork to make the value go up even more.
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