Dosing Lanthanum Chloride (Pool Phosphate Reducer)

[astefane]

It is pool opening season, and going through my pool supplies, I came across a bottle of Phosphate reducer,
according to the bottle, the only ingredients are Lanthanum chloride and water, the bottle is 1L is size and states it will reduce phosphates in 50,000L of water by 9,000ppb.

9 ppm (9,000ppb) reduction in 50,000 L, the 1L bottle will reduce my tank 385L (~100gal) by
1,188.78ppm (way too much) more realistic 1ml of the solution will reduce my tank by 1.188ppm (still way to much), but if I dilute 1ml of solution with 1L of RODI water, and then dose 400ml of this, it should reduce my phosphate level by 0.48 ppm (I believe a much safer level of reduction)

Can someone confirm my logic and math before I go down this Mad Scientist road
per my Hanna tester, my phosphorus is around 1200ppb (1ml tank water + 10ml Rodi then 10ml used in the tester, ~120ppbx10), or ~3.5 ppm phosphate (15% weekly water changes, and phosguard, seem to have no effect)

 

[xabo]

Is the product Seaklear?

Seaklear Lanthanum dilution

Hey Randy. I have a question that I'm sure many people might have posed to themselves. How do we dilute Seaklear Pool Lanthanum to Phosphate RX-ish strength? I have a huge bottle that I want to be more accurate with and since the RX has specific instructions to its strength, I'd like to bring...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[astefane]

It's a local store brand (I assume the store/someone repacked it in a smaller qty)
I will have to check of my local pool store carry Seaklear. But it is not a brand I can remember seeing.

 

[Nano_Man]

There’s something about pool phosphate reducer . But I have used L chloride and yes it definitely works sometimes too good you can bottom out no problem if your maths are wrong. I use this and it’ works really well. This product is L Chloride

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Beware that some folks have had issues with fish when dosing lanthanum. Not everyone, but some do.

 

[astefane]

I will check out the article on Seaklear, thanks for the link,
I haven't seen agent green in my local area, but will keep an eye out for it.

I'm currently doing 15% water change weekly,
~100gram of Phosguard changed out every 10 days or so,
Carbon dosing 10ml x2 daily,
Small ball of cheato in a reactor.

Can anyone recommend anything other than lanthanum?

 

[astefane]

The tank is lightly stocked,

1 clown fish,
1 damsel.
4 pj cardinals
1 niger trigger
1 urchin.

i feed 1 cube of mysis shimp, and pellets 1-2 times a day (i have to keep the trigger feed, or it gets moody)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I discuss ways to reduce phosphate here:

Phosphate in the Reef Aquarium

The phosphorus atom is one of living matter's basic building blocks. It is present in every living creature and in every reef aquarium's water. Unfortunately, it is often present in excess in reef aquaria, and that excess has the potential to cause at least two substantial problems for...

www.reefedition.com

That said, there are some great tanks with 1 ppm phosphate, so if you cannot lower it, that may not be a huge problem.

 

[chicago]

USE THIS STUFF WITH EXTREM CAUTION. I WILL NEVER USE AGAIN.
ANY WATER THAT REACTS WITH IT MUST GO THROUGH FILTER SOCK.
IF IT SIDES STEPS THIS THE FISH GILLS WILL HAVE ISSUES... SORRY FOR CAPS.. BUT I LOST SOME NICE FISH DOSING THIS STUFF.

 

[killer2001]

Right now I am dosing a small amount daily that equates to about a 0.03ppm reduction per day. No filter sock, no fish deaths.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is not clear to me why some folks see issues when dosing lanthanum and most do not, but it is a risk that folks need to consider.

 

[Doctorgori]

Can anyone recommend anything other than lanthanum?

there is GFO …a lil puzzled you heard of LC but not GFO …
I’d spell it out if it wasn’t a embarrassment…
GFO is messy but Fluvals Clearmax is less so and comes in a bag you can use for “passive” flow through
fwiw I use both, with GFO at1/2 and I dose LC 1/2 and 1/2 over a day or two … it can cloud the water but I dump it in the skimmer…no issues

btw you got a Hanna ULR phosphate checker of good test kit….just askn

added this LINK for you

 

[Reef-Engineer]

The lanthanum flocculate will aggravate fish gills, so drip into skimmer or through multiple socks. I have a feeling the people having issues are just dripping it straight into sump or tank.

 

[killer2001]

Yes, I will say that I do drip into the skimmer so that the aeration / bubbles can mix things up good.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The lanthanum flocculate will aggravate fish gills, so drip into skimmer or through multiple socks. I have a feeling the people having issues are just dripping it straight into sump or tank.

That is not always true.

IMO, there’s no clear evidence what the problem is.

 

[FernBluffReef]

The lanthanum flocculate will aggravate fish gills, so drip into skimmer or through multiple socks. I have a feeling the people having issues are just dripping it straight into sump or tank.

I don’t have a phosphate problem as yet - well low and dosing but I like to think ahead and analyzer.

I’d like to understand more about drip into skimmer? In the top and it works its way down. In front of the skimmer inlet? Have not seen anymore details then drip in skimmer hence why asking

 

[Reef-Engineer]

That is not always true.

IMO, there’s no clear evidence what the problem is.

I agree that I would like more evidence. The few papers I could find tend to claim no adverse effects on fish. However, while not a peer reviewed publication, Fauna Marin writes the below:

1. University of Nebraska paper on Lanthanum use - "While water quality improves following this biological and chemical approach, questions remain about the toxicity and potential accumulation of lanthanum in lentic organisms. We addressed this concern by analyzing flesh and liver of fish exposed to the slow-release lanthanum following two years of treatment and compared results to fish harvested from a control, untreated pond. We also conducted an aquarium fish study that used higher lanthanum concentrations than those observed in the field. The field study confirmed that under the concentrations of lanthanum released to treat eutrophic ponds (109 µg L−1), no adverse effects were observed in harvested fish."

2. Fauna Marin Knowledge base (not peer reviewed) - "Excessive dosages reduce the carbonate hardness in the system, and the resulting particles can damage fish. Please follow the dosing recommendations of the manufacturers carefully and filter the resulting particles thoroughly before they can enter the aquarium. Damage to fish is always caused by excessive dosing quantities and insufficient filtering of the particles produced."


With regard to dosing into a skimmer: Check this out, it will show the how, the Why is that ideally the flocculant gets skimmed out (and ideally you run skimmer output through a sock as well for double safety).

 

[carpos]

I can confidently say its caused me fish problems each time I've tried it, and killed one of the my yellow tangs
Each time via doser, very small amount spread out and p04 never near bottomed out. My understanding was its only really dangerous if it has nothing to bind too, but seems not

1st attempt through an xfilter. Noticed some tangs acting weirdly, orange shoulder specifically, like they were trying to chew on something on the side of their month, hard to explain. ICP came back high La. Roll did advanced when dosed so it was capturing some of it. Stopped using it

2nd attempt direct into the skimmer, similar issues, stopped using it

3rd attempt via a 5micron sock, it just clogged up in no time. Came home one day to all my tangs lying on the sandbed, crap load heavy water changes and they came around, except 1 yellow tang that died

Always and only the tangs!

Tried agent green, quantum and another forget the name, all well below dosing recommendations. About 6months and clear icp's between each attempt

Not for me this stuff!
But, no a few folk who use it no bother.

 

[Borat]

In Kazakistan water containing less than 30% human solids is considered acceptable.

 

[Borat]

USE THIS STUFF WITH EXTREM CAUTION. I WILL NEVER USE AGAIN.
ANY WATER THAT REACTS WITH IT MUST GO THROUGH FILTER SOCK.
IF IT SIDES STEPS THIS THE FISH GILLS WILL HAVE ISSUES... SORRY FOR CAPS.. BUT I LOST SOME NICE FISH DOSING THIS STUFF.

Hello Mr Trump, HOW ARE YOU?