Dosing precipitation points VS useage dosing

[rastaangel]

I have a question for the community I’ve never encountered in all my years. I’ve been keeping reef tanks for a long time so I know all too well about our friendly chemicals we use to maintain parameters in our tanks.
But what I’ve run into is the fact I am dosing so much product that I’m causing precipitation to happen resulting in build up on my glass but more damaging my return pump! I can’t go a week without having to disassemble it and clean it out, same with my MP10s. I am running a trident on the system so I am always watching it to maintain levels, it is calibrated with regeant change and double checke switch test kits and hannas.
Basically I think what’s happening is my water volume is limiting something OR I’m doing something wrong… cuz there’s no way I should be having to dose what I do! I have to dose 1500ml of saturated kalk for evap, 660ml of carbonate(aqua forest mixed at 500g baked with 200g raw(maybe my problem since I’m upping saturation to cut down on volume)), 248ml of sodium hydroxide for PH buffing and 282ml of calcium just to keep my levels proper. And this is on a 43g water volume tank… I clearly have an imbalance I’m not seeing or knowing about that’s causing my issues so I’m hoping someone can tune in? Was hoping maybe Randy haha

 

[KrisReef]

Maybe post a picture of your tank so folks can see what organisms you have that are active uptaking the input?

I think that will help folks understand the situation and give you better insight when they reply back with ideas and information on how you should proceed with adjustments going forward.

 

[Dan_P]

I have a question for the community I’ve never encountered in all my years. I’ve been keeping reef tanks for a long time so I know all too well about our friendly chemicals we use to maintain parameters in our tanks.
But what I’ve run into is the fact I am dosing so much product that I’m causing precipitation to happen resulting in build up on my glass but more damaging my return pump! I can’t go a week without having to disassemble it and clean it out, same with my MP10s. I am running a trident on the system so I am always watching it to maintain levels, it is calibrated with regeant change and double checke switch test kits and hannas.
Basically I think what’s happening is my water volume is limiting something OR I’m doing something wrong… cuz there’s no way I should be having to dose what I do! I have to dose 1500ml of saturated kalk for evap, 660ml of carbonate(aqua forest mixed at 500g baked with 200g raw(maybe my problem since I’m upping saturation to cut down on volume)), 248ml of sodium hydroxide for PH buffing and 282ml of calcium just to keep my levels proper. And this is on a 43g water volume tank… I clearly have an imbalance I’m not seeing or knowing about that’s causing my issues so I’m hoping someone can tune in? Was hoping maybe Randy haha

Is the magnesium concentration too low?

 

[rastaangel]

Maybe post a picture of your tank so folks can see what organisms you have that are active uptaking the input?

I think that will help folks understand the situation and give you better insight when they reply back with ideas and information on how you should proceed with adjustments going forward.

It’s a SPS dominate tank so there ar wall of SPS frags and colonies in it

 

[rastaangel]

Is the magnesium concentration too low?

My mag is usually between 1400-1500 depending on if I’m away for work on in town

 

[KrisReef]

It’s a SPS dominate tank so there ar wall of SPS frags and colonies in it

Years ago I found that I was oversaturating my tank when I was trying to just keep up with coral consumption. I cut way back and lowered my target numbers closer to NSW and got the precipitation under control. I'm too stressed and old to try and help figure this out so I am hoping others will step in. Randy is the guy, perhaps searching the web for Alk and CA balancing, using his name would lead you to some of his older work where he has laid the stuff out that explains how to go forward in your situation.

I'm on my wifes machine and she is going to bed.

Without me

Good luck,

 

[Dan_P]

My mag is usually between 1400-1500 depending on if I’m away for work on in town

OK that is not too low

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is my generic recommendation for precipitation issues (e.g., hardening sand, seizing pumps, etc.):

1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline.
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.

 

[rastaangel]

This is my generic recommendation for precipitation issues (e.g., hardening sand, seizing pumps, etc.):

1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline.
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.

Here’s the guy I was hoping would tune in haha
I can definitely turn off my sodium hydroxide doser BUT I definitely can’t stop dosing alk cuz if I do even for a few hours doing maintance it drops hard, like .5dkh. I also tried AFR and found myself still having to 3 part dose cuz I hit the ceiling of what they suggest is the max dose in a day for my water volume. My mag is always above 1400 so it’s not low, should I go higher? Like keep it at 1500? I definitely do have a ULN system, I have to dose to keep them in the nice readable zone.
That this point I guess I have to accept I’ll have a chronically low PH tank if you think that all the PH boosting supplements I’m using is what’s possibly causing my issue. Without baking my sodium bicarbonate and using soduim hydroxide my PH rarely comes above 8.2 where as right now it never drops below 8.3 but that’s also 100% chemical

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can definitely turn off my sodium hydroxide doser BUT I definitely can’t stop dosing alk cuz if I do even for a few hours doing maintance it drops hard, like .5dkh.

That is what you need: lower alk and lower pH to break the preciptiation cycle and allow phosphate, organics, and magnesium to coat the bare calcum carboante surfaces and prevent further precipitation.

If the alk is not below 6 dKH, I would not dose anything in this drop period.

 

[rastaangel]

That is what you need: lower alk and lower pH to break the preciptiation cycle and allow phosphate, organics, and magnesium to coat the bare calcum carboante surfaces and prevent further precipitation.

If the alk is not below 6 dKH, I would not dose anything in this drop period.

You can really go that low? All my years I’ve always kept 8 as bad and 7.5 is usually when I have death or issues

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can really go that low? All my years I’ve always kept 8 as bad and 7.5 is usually when I have death or issues

The ocean is only about 6.5 dKH, and corals thrive there.

 

[rastaangel]

Well I turned off my hydroxide doser and switched over to just raw bicarbonate and ofcourse my PH went from 8.3 to 7.9 as I expected. I also didn’t realizes that raw bicarbonate raises all more then baked, I thought it was the other way around and well instead of going down my alk went from 8.8 to 9.8 so that in itself also tells me I can’t turn my doser way down as well

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well I turned off my hydroxide doser and switched over to just raw bicarbonate and ofcourse my PH went from 8.3 to 7.9 as I expected. I also didn’t realizes that raw bicarbonate raises all more then baked, I thought it was the other way around and well instead of going down my alk went from 8.8 to 9.8 so that in itself also tells me I can’t turn my doser way down as well

Raw baking soda boosts alk and lowers pH a tiny bit. Baked baking soda/sodium carbonate has a larger alk boost per unit of dry weight, and has a pH boost.

When the pH drops, alk demand declines, potentially requiring less alk supplement to maintain it.

 

[rastaangel]

Well I believe you haha my alk dose was cut my 200ml to try to level it out and obviously a lot of the calcium I was dosing I low have to cut that dosing down to cuz it skyrocketed