Dr. Tim's Eco Balance

[BOWHUNTER4250]

I have a DD300 and have battled GHA twice in 18 months , both times i used Flucon with the first treatment wiping it out to where i thought it was gone .... came back slowly and overtook my tank once again , used Flucon with 2 more treatments and a lot of hours with a tooth brush scrubbing all my rock and Trocus snails i am 90% free of GHA .

Now my question is : It was recommended to me that by using the Flucon it wiped out most of my GOOD BACTERIA and i should start using Dr. Tim's Eco Balance to get things back to a balance , i always heard good thing about these products so i got a bottle and did half the recommended dosage for my water volume but going forward following the directions i would be adding approx. 425ml weekly as i have approx. 425 total water volume . this to me seems like a lot of bacteria to add weekly but wanted to see who else uses this same product and how long have you been using it ..... Is this something that wont be a problem later to add weekly or only add periodically ? I know if it becomes too much the water can become cloudy from the bacteria bloom , i have only added this twice so far , the first time at half the dosage and the second at full dosage 10ml per 10gal.

Thanks

 

[brandon429]

The reason I can’t recommend that is because in the nuisance algae forum, no gha jobs have been fixed by it, gotta look elsewhere. In scanning the first ten pages I find zero works with it, in a tank that large not sure what to try and it won’t hurt to try that one, at least we will have an attempt on file.


a uv sterilizer would be far more effective, intercepting the fragmentation / transmission phase of anchored algae


vibrant might be better attempt paired with uv

there are a thousand vibrant references on file with after pics.

 

[BOWHUNTER4250]

The reason I can’t recommend that is because in the nuisance algae forum, no gha jobs have been fixed by it, gotta look elsewhere. In scanning the first ten pages I find zero works with it, in a tank that large not sure what to try and it won’t hurt to try that one, at least we will have an attempt on file.


a uv sterilizer would be far more effective, intercepting the fragmentation / transmission phase of anchored algae


vibrant might be better attempt paired with uv

there are a thousand vibrant references on file with after pics.

Im not trying to use the Eco Balance to " fix " the GHA issue , im doing that by scrubbing my rocks , change lighting schedule , feeding , etc .... i wiped out most of the " GOOD " population of bacteria i had by using Fluconazole , im using the Eco Balance to get that back up and am wondering who has been using this on a regular basis and results ?? good or bad , opinions

 

[brandon429]

No I disagree with that flow... not being obtuse its just not related to any fix work going on. Harmless to try though


Fluconazole has growback problems per the 200 page fluc thread. Not related to bacteria. Related to holdfasts being left in the rock, usually alongside detritus as feed.

Gha is selected for in reefs, like coral. Doesn't require something bad or lost to exist. Requires unmatched grazers to exist. They're the only thing keeping gha under control in real reefs

if there is any rock you can shake mid-tank water and a huge casting of cloud comes off, that's the feed. no pill fixes that. if there is sand in the tank and you can reach in or stick stir a test area, and it clouds, that's more feed as well.


you wont get 5 people to agree on courses of action for anything in reefing, that's why I leverage where the work is.

few are in the nuisance algae forum, logging after pics, turning tanks around with practice-- so I gravitate towards only where the proof is, the application I can scan for myself and find patterns. I will bet fully if you buy that, money is just being spent, no effect on the reef one way or another.

 

[BOWHUNTER4250]

No I disagree with that flow... not being obtuse its just not related to any fix work going on. Harmless to try though


Fluconazole has growback problems per the 200 page fluc thread. Not related to bacteria. Related to holdfasts being left in the rock, usually alongside detritus as feed.

Gha is selected for in reefs, like coral. Doesn't require something bad or lost to exist. Requires unmatched grazers to exist. They're the only thing keeping gha under control in real reefs

if there is any rock you can shake mid-tank water and a huge casting of cloud comes off, that's the feed. no pill fixes that. if there is sand in the tank and you can reach in or stick stir a test area, and it clouds, that's more feed as well.


you wont get 5 people to agree on courses of action for anything in reefing, that's why I leverage where the work is.

few are in the nuisance algae forum, logging after pics, turning tanks around with practice-- so I gravitate towards only where the proof is, the application I can scan for myself and find patterns. I will bet fully if you buy that, money is just being spent, no effect on the reef one way or another.

I understand that however the Fluconazole does in fact kill good bacteria we have that helps in the break down process, am i wrong in that fact ? ...... so in lamens terms your saying the Dr. Tim's products IE: Eco Balance are basically snake oil ? if so then what should i be adding to regain the good bacteria ?

 

[brandon429]

Nobody has ever shown that fluc kills bac. That is for sure debatable

anyone claiming that-how did they measure the before and after, which clades were affected, what was the media used etc.

not that word of mouth is all bad in reefing, nobody on paper ever allowed a pico reef to exist lol we just did it anyway. Managing gha in large tanks is so hard indeed, its reason #4 i only keep pico reefs. the first three are cash allotment reasons. its not very helpful to point out what won't work, just trying to focus options and cost on what has been working the best in large tanks in the challenge forums across boards, not even just ours. reefcentral though it is now as slow as molasses, the whole site every niche, still has nice references for large tank GHA help.

Youd be surprised how many we've fixed with standard peroxide too. post a tank pic just curious what you are working with. not saying peroxide is the right option, just that we have hundreds of fixes on file to be evaluated for what they are. if a big tank challenge was my own personal reef I'd be seeking out matched grazers who really just like this selected growth, and that's not easy to find.

a large portion of control would still be me removing rocks, forcing clean algae with peroxide after the removal, and putting back clean rocks till I found a control mode that saves me from being 50% wet from the waist up from reaching in and moving around stuff and removing rocks for forced cleaning etc.


try one single test rock this way. just to know something about true manual control and have it modeled among all the other hard to reach zones. pull one rock only, and easy one, and use a pocket knife like a dentist to rasp off 100% of the attached algae, scraping the holdfasts. swish this rock in a bucket of sw to cast off its waste and raspings.

put peroxide on the cleaned zones, let em sit 3-4 mins in the air, rinse and put the rock back to be tracked among the countless other options about to be tried. test modeling harms nothing, lets us see options.

this is humans becoming a matched grazer till we get lucky with the slugs. nobody wants to manually clean two hundred pounds of rock, agreed.

this is making one pound, among 200 non performing pounds, comply and that's no harm to see in action. helps to know bottom line controls. < --- this work is straight from the nuisance algae forum.

 

[BOWHUNTER4250]

Nobody has ever shown that fluc kills bac. That is for sure debatable

anyone claiming that-how did they measure the before and after, which clades were affected, what was the media used etc.

not that word of mouth is all bad in reefing, nobody on paper ever allowed a pico reef to exist lol we just did it anyway. Managing gha in large tanks is so hard indeed, its reason #4 i only keep pico reefs. the first three are cash allotment reasons. its not very helpful to point out what won't work, just trying to focus options and cost on what has been working the best in large tanks in the challenge forums across boards, not even just ours. reefcentral though it is now as slow as molasses, the whole site every niche, still has nice references for large tank GHA help.

Youd be surprised how many we've fixed with standard peroxide too. post a tank pic just curious what you are working with. not saying peroxide is the right option, just that we have hundreds of fixes on file to be evaluated for what they are. if a big tank challenge was my own personal reef I'd be seeking out matched grazers who really just like this selected growth, and that's not easy to find.

a large portion of control would still be me removing rocks, forcing clean algae with peroxide after the removal, and putting back clean rocks till I found a control mode that saves me from being 50% wet from the waist up from reaching in and moving around stuff and removing rocks for forced cleaning etc.


try one single test rock this way. just to know something about true manual control and have it modeled among all the other hard to reach zones. pull one rock only, and easy one, and use a pocket knife like a dentist to rasp off 100% of the attached algae, scraping the holdfasts. swish this rock in a bucket of sw to cast off its waste and raspings.

put peroxide on the cleaned zones, let em sit 3-4 mins in the air, rinse and put the rock back to be tracked among the countless other options about to be tried. test modeling harms nothing, lets us see options.

this is humans becoming a matched grazer till we get lucky with the slugs. nobody wants to manually clean two hundred pounds of rock, agreed.

this is making one pound, among 200 non performing pounds, comply and that's no harm to see in action. helps to know bottom line controls. < --- this work is straight from the nuisance algae forum.

I run a bare bottom tank , i have a few rocks on the bottom i can take out and scrub , i have found a tooth brush gets them pretty clean as i can scrub pretty hard , i will take a few out and scrub them , im sure it will be cleaner after the peroxide as i know this will kill the holdfasts , however their are spots i can barley even reach with a tooth brush let alone trying to get to them with peroxide ?

 

[brandon429]

we might have to leave those spots and work with whats avail in giant systems like that. the last time I was scuba diving was in 1996 in the caymans and those reefs were tops, really strong then among the best.


and in between some of the huge ventalina gorgs there would be little tufts of hair algae or cyano


and then five mins later a huge parrotfish comes and bites off the whole section lol and poops out sand I nearly ran out of o2 calmly watching it all transfixed. the best reef Id seen or will see absolutely grew gha and cyano on its own, in trace levels, so the fish and urchins can munch. given no grazers, the reef would choke with algae.


that's where I learned algae can function independent from water params. Cayman waters were reef perfection back then.


the smaller tufts remaining are very normal for reefs, its really taking the upper hand to manage what we can. pls take pics of the before and after work if you can, it really helps other large tankers to see someone willing to test/run the works etc. I wish i had a better lower work way but I dont, this is what we do for literally ten thousand reefs that choose this method. check out some of the last pages here:

 

[brandon429]

Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

Thank you for the quick reply and guidance. it Is a Waterbox 100.3 so a take down is fairly easy. Went through it to get all the fish out a month ago and is no problem. All corals on plugs aside from the nem so that is also a non issue. Conchs, snails, hermits, fire and cleaner shrimp is all...

www.reef2reef.com

now that's some gha slaying. cost 75 cents and some wet arms lol

 

[brandon429]

I could advocate applying the dr tims in the clean condition. if it helps as a growback preventer that'd be nice.

 

[BOWHUNTER4250]

we might have to leave those spots and work with whats avail in giant systems like that. the last time I was scuba diving was in 1996 in the caymans and those reefs were tops, really strong then among the best.


and in between some of the huge ventalina gorgs there would be little tufts of hair algae or cyano


and then five mins later a huge parrotfish comes and bites off the whole section lol and poops out sand I nearly ran out of o2 calmly watching it all transfixed. the best reef Id seen or will see absolutely grew gha and cyano on its own, in trace levels, so the fish and urchins can munch. given no grazers, the reef would choke with algae.


that's where I learned algae can function independent from water params.


the smaller tufts remaining are very normal for reefs, its really taking the upper hand to manage what we can. pls take pics of the before and after work if you can, it really helps other large tankers to see someone willing to test/run the works etc. I wish i had a better lower work way but I dont, this is what we do for literally ten thousand reefs that choose this method. check out some of the last pages here:

I can see if i have any pics of before my hours of scrubbing , i can certainly put some current pics up of where im at today

 

[brandon429]

thats a lot of work, nice job on reducing catch points for waste with the bare bottom, that should really help in keeping things minimal.

 

[Arabyps]

In haven't used Dr Tim's but you might consider a more natural way it your tank will support it. I had a huge GHA problem. My cure was adding a Magnificent Foxface. He consumed it all and now keeps it in check.

 

[sde1500]

I doubt Fluc killed much of any of your bacteria, its not an antibiotic. I've utilized it twice in the past when life got in the way of good tank maintenance. It works great, but changing nothing else and expecting the problem to go away wouldn't work. Where it really shines is getting you ahead of a problem, and allowing you stay ahead of it with good tank maintenance. I don't see much need to add a bacterial product to your tank at this point.

 

[brandon429]

fluc is the single best bryopsis killer/controller Ive ever seen (in work thread patterns)

it beats perx hands down for tough-anchored bryopsis fronds

after strong pre-removal, holdfast-specific work then it might be a really powerful preventer of growback here.